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Allen_okc
09 May 2011, 0511
PROJECT GOAL...

frame - modified Honda Shadow VT500

88 headway lifepo4 cells - 22S4P 72 volt

Mars motor ME0709
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_me0709.php

Altrax or Kelly Controller

Altrax - http://cgi.ebay.com/AXE7245-Alltrax-Motor-Controller-AXE-7245-450A-24-72V-/270750132297?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f09f72849

Kelly - http://kellycontroller.com/kd7240024-72v400aseriespm-p-238.html

no DC to DC converter

BMS and cell log 8M from hobby king

***speed, i dont care - as long as it gets me to work and back - 10 mile distance all together***

majorpayne
09 May 2011, 0536
Damn, love the look of it. so badass.
Have you decided on what motor you're gonna use yet?

by the way what program did you use to do those renders, they're brilliant.

Can't wait to see this happen!

Allen_okc
09 May 2011, 0544
as far a motor, havent decided yet - but i will have complete diagram and to scale schematics with measurements for everyone to view or use...

my choice of weapons when it comes to designing is Corel Draw and 3D Carrara... both can design to scale and used on a CNC or plotter for full scale hard copy...

cycleguy
09 May 2011, 0552
Nice drawings. It looks to me like your battery pack is about a third the size that it needs to be. Looks really nice, but not nearly large enough to fit more than 10-12 CALB cells into.

frodus
09 May 2011, 0755
yeah, the pack is a bit small.... Do you have a battery in mind?

I'd start with battery first, almost always, and build around that.

Allen_okc
09 May 2011, 0839
yup im using the headway batteries, i like the way they can be arranged - the best part its still in design mode, so i can adjust the size of the custom battery box to what ever size, which is one of the goals of this design is to make the box fit to any size so i can store the power for the motor...

actually ED, i like the arrangement of your batteries, can you give me a dimension of the case your using, so when i draw the schematic i can have the appropriate size...

PS any suggestions of how to set this bike up will be appreciated... right now im thinking of using the components from the drag bike Spaz Attack...

Allen_okc
09 May 2011, 1012
i thought this is interesting... no fuel generator...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk5Wp3bpSfA&feature=related

Allen_okc
10 May 2011, 0706
here is a simple schematic with measurements - the battery box will hold 32 cells but there is room on the frame to expand it for larger voltage ranges... after looking at the design, the bottom spoiler needs to be shorten a bit... looks like its tongue is sticking out... im off to the yamaha dealer friday and i;ll wonder through the bone yard looking for frame parts...

but your right frodus, before i build the frame, i'll build the custom battery box first, so im pretty sure i'll be starting that pretty soon... im checking into other technologies for a on board generator such as the link i gave above...

majorpayne
10 May 2011, 0754
here is a simple schematic with measurements - the battery box will hold 32 cells but there is room on the frame to expand it for larger voltage ranges...

32 headway cells? won't that only give you ~100V and 8-16Ah depending on the cell? thats only ~.8-1.6KwH

Allen_okc
10 May 2011, 0755
48 volt 400 amps series parallel

majorpayne
10 May 2011, 0757
Ah that makes more sense. What'll the kwh of the pack be?

frodus
10 May 2011, 0803
Each 10Ah headway is 32Wh, you have 32 cells, that'd be 1024Wh with 10AH cells. With 16Ah cells it'd be 1638Wh.

Your range, with 10Ah would be less than 10 miles, and with 16Ah, it'd be less than 16miles.



Where are you getting 400A? Both the 10Ah and 16Ah are good for 5C continuous, and 10C max, and if you do 5C continuous that's 200A for 10Ah and 320A for 16Ah. Don't go over that, you'll start hurting the cells. 10C is for 30 seconds before they start to heat up too much. Also, at higher discharge rates, you don't get the full capacity. i.e. 10Ah at 5C is about 9.3Ah (I've measured it). That means you get less range.


For a bike that large, you'll be looking at maybe 150wh/mile, so if you want 10 miles, that'd be 1.5kwh needed. If you want 30 miles range, you need 4.5kwh, which would be 90 cells of the 16Ah or 140 10Ah cells.


long and short of it, you need more batteries, even at 48V, you need at least twice that to handle the current you're gonna need with a bike and motor that large.

Skeezmour
10 May 2011, 0805
Thats 32wh not 32ah my good sir.....go get some coffee silly :)

Allen_okc
10 May 2011, 0849
you fellows know more than i - so can anyone give me a container size to house that many batteries so i can work it into the design... like frodus said build the battery box first and build the frame around it, which is a sound plan...

im open to all suggestions...

Allen_okc
10 May 2011, 0852
i was hoping that i can turn the amps down through the kelly controller to give me a longer ride - although this bike will be a grocery getter, so at least a 20 to 30 mile range will work for me...

oh and a minimum of 50mph...

majorpayne
10 May 2011, 0857
If you want a 48v system voltage and lets say you want to be able to drive around 30 miles on one charge. Since your bike is big we'll assume you drive at 150wh/mile, so you would need at least a 30miles*150Wh/mile = 4.5kwh pack. So your pack would need to have a capacity of 4.5kwh/48v=~94Ah. Lets say that you're using the 40160S 16Ah cells you'd need 15 cells in series to get 48V and 94Ah/16Ah = ~6 packs to achieve this(15s6p). With this config you actually get 4.608Kwh with 90 cells.

Oh and if you want minimum of 50 mph you may want to step up to a 72v pack

frodus
10 May 2011, 0912
Thats 32wh not 32ah my good sir.....go get some coffee silly :)
haha, coffee is in hand. Thats what you get trying to post 3 posts on 3 forums at the same time ;)

changed it, thanks for catching it.

frodus
10 May 2011, 0914
Ifyou want a 48v system voltage and lets say you want to be able to drive around 30 miles on one charge. Since your bike is big we'll assume you drive at 150wh/mile, so you would need at least a 30miles*150Wh/mile = 4.5kwh pack. So your pack would need to have a capacity of 4.5kwh/48v=~94Ah. Lets say that you're using the 40160S 16Ah cells you'd need 15 cells in series to get 48V and 94Ah/16Ah = ~6 packs to achieve this(15s6p). With this config you actually get 4.608Kwh with 90 cells.

Yeah, I'd do 16 cells though. 15 cell chargers are a PITA to get. They're all set up for 16 cells, same thing with BMS. I'd also second that recoomendation to increase voltage to 72V. Not sure why 48V was chosen.

Allen_okc
10 May 2011, 0937
me neither it was just a thought, my thoughts are still on the bikes design - but i geuss i should figure that first and build the bike around it...

as soon as i can get a definite box size, then it can be built, but im still going over designs like a way to remove the batteries for service without having to pull everything out of the bike to do so...

dont worry i'll figure it out - if i can design a million dollar casino sign, im sure i can come up with a little battery box.

Allen_okc
10 May 2011, 1020
my motor the can go to 72 volts - what do you recommend in using the headyway batteries, as far as how many since i would like to re-use the 08AH 38120 P Cells...

or should i use the 16AH 40160 S Cell

frodus
10 May 2011, 1048
depends, do you want power density or energy density?

I'd suggest looking over range and speed requirements, and get a hard number.

Its hard to design otherwise.

Allen_okc
10 May 2011, 1131
well the ideal is for a daily rider... 20 to 30 miles a day would be good... not for racing, but for 25mph to 50 mph in town...

frodus
10 May 2011, 1201
set a hard number of your requirement, think about it for a bit, no hurry.

But you need a minimum acceptable range and speed, so set that and then design.

Allen_okc
11 May 2011, 0733
update of the custom battery box... what i need to do is go ahead and build a prototype...

Allen_okc
11 May 2011, 0756
i was looking at our sign, and i noticed some elements of shape that can be used...

frodus
11 May 2011, 0814
not sure how you intend to design something before you know what goes in the box...... or are you going to add another seperate box for the rest of the batteries?

Allen_okc
11 May 2011, 0830
well so far, at everyones suggestion - the bike will be at least 72 volt, which would be 23 cells - is that correct?
or would you suggest 46 cells... which i know the more the merrier...

but a prototype wouldnt be used other than dialing in on the design of, kinda like building a model - as soon as i figure out the power of the bike then i can build the actual case...

if you can give me an estimate of how many of the headways and what ah for a 72 volt motor, i can get started building it...

i know i just want the bike to be used as daily rider to work, fast speeds is not needed since the highest speeds i would be using it for here in the city would be at least 55mph - the distance to travel to work is at most 10 miles in a hill and flat ground environment... so 20 to 30 mile range will work. im thinking 200 amps would be the most i need, correct me if im wrong...

the bike itself will be extremely light, that i can guarantee...

also i have access of all the material i need for free here...

jpanichella
11 May 2011, 0854
72V would be 24 cells.

ZoomSmith
11 May 2011, 0857
That would be 24 groups of cells in series. The number of cells (2,3,4...etc) in the parallel groups depends on your acceleration/range requirements.

frodus
11 May 2011, 0911
If you want say, 30 miles, you need at least 3kwh, i'd shoot for 3.5kwh or higher.

So, each cell is 3.2V and 10Ah for the 38120S headways (or 3.2V and 16Ah for the 40160S). The 38120S cells are 32Wh. Lets say you do 5 in parallel for 50Ah and 24 in series for a ~3.8kwh pack. That would be 120 38120S cells (38mm diameter and 120mm long). Now the 40160 cells are 51.2Wh. Lets say you do 3 of those in parallel and 24 in series for a 3.68kwh pack. That would be 72 40160 cells (40mm diameter and 160mm long).

Building this bike with ONLY 24 cells is not going to work, imho.

Allen_okc
11 May 2011, 0915
thank you jpanichella - i caught that after you mentioned it. sorry...

so 48 cells in series/parallel would probably be the most i need for a wimpy scooter... which is what im after... cool but wimpy. the reason is to start with that and see how the bikes performance is. after that i can decide to add more cells later...

the Spaz Attack drag bike will give me a better perspective on how how things work with this new set up "MARS MOTOR".

the SPAZ ATTACK bike with five lead batteries and a 60 volt 1000 watt set up exceeded 40 mph on its second run - i rewound the motor with 20 gauge wire, which eventually fried.

this 48 volt 19 horse powered mars motor and, sorry to say it Kelley Controller 400amp, "sorry ED", 32 8ah headway batteries, it will be a interesting ride... i can pick the bike up and carry it up stairs, the way it is right now with 12 headways in it, curious to see how the bike performs with 32 cells, which i'll find out at the drag strip this june...

frodus
11 May 2011, 0939
I would recommend against buying cells in "batches" and adding as you go, unless you intend to do so over a short period of time (weeks). The reason being, they'll be unmatched after charging one batch and then adding new cells. There will be slight variations in the cells, so if you do it, make sure you do it in a short time span to minimize this.

But I wouldn't use 48 cells on a "chopper", but is it more of a bike? or a motorcycle? I'm a little confused now. It looks full size with a large motor.

majorpayne
11 May 2011, 0953
thank you jpanichella - i caught that after you mentioned it. sorry...

so 48 cells in series/parallel would probably be the most i need for a wimpy scooter... which is what im after... cool but wimpy. the reason is to start with that and see how the bikes performance is. after that i can decide to add more cells later...

the Spaz Attack drag bike will give me a better perspective on how how things work with this new set up "MARS MOTOR".

the SPAZ ATTACK bike with five lead batteries and a 60 volt 1000 watt set up exceeded 40 mph on its second run - i rewound the motor with 20 gauge wire, which eventually fried.

this 48 volt 19 horse powered mars motor and, sorry to say it Kelley Controller 400amp, "sorry ED", 32 8ah headway batteries, it will be a interesting ride... i can pick the bike up and carry it up stairs, the way it is right now with 12 headways in it, curious to see how the bike performs with 32 cells, which i'll find out at the drag strip this june...

32 headways aren't gonna meet your requirements of 30 miles and 50 mph. I think you're getting amps and amp hours confused here. The controller's rating of 400amps means that it can draw a maximum of 400 amps from your batteries. So I assume you're looking at the C rating of the cells and adding them up until you can draw 400 amps. But on the 38120P cells 200 amps is the impulse current or maximum discharge current and you can only draw that for a very short amount of time.
What you need to think about is the kwh of your pack. To achieve higher kwh then you need to increase either volts or amp hours. So since you've chosen 72V as your pack voltage you will need at LEAST 48Amp hours to achieve around 30miles. To get this you need 24 cells in series to get 72 volts. Then by connecting multiple packs of 24 cells in parallel, in this case 6(assuming 38120P cells), you add up the amp hours. In total you will need 6 parallel packs of 24 series cells.

Hope this helps

cycleguy
11 May 2011, 1004
I would recommend using the Headway 40160S cells. They are 16Ah each. You would need a minimum of 72 of these cells. Configure your pack by putting 3 cells together in parallel for a total of 48Ah, then stringing 24 of those 3 cell groups in series for 76.8V.
These cells are good for 5C continuous (48Ah x 5C = 240Amps) and 10C burst (480Amps). This will give you a 3.7Kwh pack which should be good for a 30 mile range at a steady medium speed.

frodus
11 May 2011, 1037
To get this you need 24 cells in series to get 72 volts. Then by connecting multiple packs of 24 cells in parallel, in this case 6(assuming 38120P cells), you add up the amp hours. In total you will need 6 parallel packs of 24 series cells.

Hope this helps

IMHO always parallel first, then put in series.

frodus
11 May 2011, 1042
[edited]

I'd say do 24 in series. I've found that its a PITA to find a charger (if you can) or "hack" something together to get it to work. 24s is a nice number for chargers, BMS, and controller.

I'd stick to multiples of 4 for cells in series. Easier for matching equipment. 48V (16S), 60V (20S), 72V (24S), 84V (28S), 96V (32S) are good numbers to stick to.

cycleguy
11 May 2011, 1043
I'd say do 24 in series. I've found that its a PITA to find a charger (if you can) or "hack" something together to get it to work. 24s is a nice number for chargers, BMS, and controller.

I meant 24 cells, edited the correction

Allen_okc
11 May 2011, 1049
I would recommend against buying cells in "batches" and adding as you go, unless you intend to do so over a short period of time (weeks). The reason being, they'll be unmatched after charging one batch and then adding new cells. There will be slight variations in the cells, so if you do it, make sure you do it in a short time span to minimize this.

But I wouldn't use 48 cells on a "chopper", but is it more of a bike? or a motorcycle? I'm a little confused now. It looks full size with a large motor.

it will be motorcycle components - but the frame will be custom built and the body will be fiberglass...

one other thing we are going into a tornado warning here oklahoma city...

Allen_okc
11 May 2011, 1058
thank you everyone, that helps me very much - i leave it to you fellows how to set this up, im not very intelligent when it comes to LIPO4's... its all foreign to me... but the suggestions will be the guide line... all components will remain in the drag bike until the chopper is complete... i very much want to drag race this bike for the summer... then use what i can from it for the chopper, then the next project will be the big boy drag racing motorcycle, which it will need a completely different set-up.

the purpose of the drag bike is to be my teacher and learn from... i love EV's so much that i desperately want to know as much about them as possible...

Allen_okc
13 May 2011, 1142
this fellow and I must of went to the same school...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUfYkvSPldI

larryrose11
13 May 2011, 1233
With a rigid tail, I would think it would be a great place for a hub motor, like the Enertrac.
It is a brushless PM unit. No worries about un-sprung mass, more room for batteries, good top speed.
MarkCycle on this forum is the owner. He even is making his own controller, which I have heard on this forum that he will give you a discount, because it is still in beta.
It is a high voltage unit, so the current is low. Makes it possible to use CALIB batteries, which have lower c rating compared to headway.

Allen_okc
13 May 2011, 1347
thank you larry - i still have a lot thinking to do about this project, i got till this fall... but it will come to be on road...

i like hub motors, and it would keep Spaz Attack together...

Everyone have a good weekend...

i leave my office for the weekend...

larryrose11
14 May 2011, 0631
Oh yea, another thing about the Enertrac hub motor. Mark can now incorporate them into a solid wheel. he has some sort of agreement with a wheel blank mfg. YOu could order it with a 300 / 330 size wheel. http://enertracrawfeed.blogspot.com/search/label/Chopper%20wheel%20motor

Allen_okc
16 May 2011, 0650
Thank You Larry, thats actually a good looking wheel - i like the center line look...

Allen_okc
16 May 2011, 0658
Mr Froddus - or anyone, can you give me a go over on the latest battery box size for 72 LiFePO4 headway cells for the chopper, as soon as i can get verified size, i can begin to build the frame...

sorry about calling the LiFePO4 batteries Lipo, i didnt understand that there was a difference in types of the batteries, i just called them Lipos as a short abbreviation of the LiFePO4...

also if anyone check to see if the battery layout connection is correct for the Spaz Attack scooter...

Im hoping to have all the cells i need "32" to get this Spaz Attack running in a couple of weeks. i ordered eight this week and hope to order 12 next week from Manzanita...

majorpayne
16 May 2011, 0731
For the 32 cell diagram I think your negative terminal is connected one pair of cells too early. It should be connected to the pair of cells that are in the middle row and four pairs from the left.

Allen_okc
16 May 2011, 0809
i wasnt sure if it mattered if the negative ouput, as long as it came off the same connection bar, i know it looks weird, but im trying to get the terminals of the pack to pop out from the back end of the packs lexan cover...

the trans black connection is the opposite side of the pack, and the light gray and dark orange connections are of the forward view of the pack

Thank You Tyler...

frodus
16 May 2011, 0819
If you're doing 2 in parallel, I feel you need wider bussbar if you want to pull lots of amps. One thin (not wide) piece of copper may not be enough when you're trying to shove all the current through it. I'd suggest tying all 4 cell ends together (two +, two -). If not, make the copper thicker material.

And the negative is one cell group too early, your negative is in the center of the pack.

Allen_okc
16 May 2011, 0825
i like that ideal Travis - is there a place to buy a bus bar like that for the headways, or is that something that has to be made?

no problem on reconfiguring the pack, thats why i brought it to you fellows, so i can get this right before the actual connecting of the batteries - im going to wait to hook up the cells until i got all 32...

frodus
16 May 2011, 0857
are you mixing up two projects? This is really confusing. Is this the chopper or scooter?

What size cells are you using because it depends on how the holes are centered. Several places sell two and 4 hole bussbar.

Allen_okc
16 May 2011, 0934
If you're doing 2 in parallel, I feel you need wider bussbar if you want to pull lots of amps. One thin (not wide) piece of copper may not be enough when you're trying to shove all the current through it. I'd suggest tying all 4 cell ends together (two +, two -). If not, make the copper thicker material.

And the negative is one cell group too early, your negative is in the center of the pack.

this one we are talking about is the 48 volt battery pack - it looks like the two cells parallel together could use some four cell bus bars for a parallel/series...

the chopper has no layout other than the batteries are stacked for dimension reasons of building the battery box... the chopper will be three cells parallel together...

frodus
16 May 2011, 0938
Can you please post this pack in your scooter thread, this is really confusing. Keep projects separated, otherwise it's hard to follow what you're even doing. Use this thread to talk about the chopper, and the other to talk about the scooter.

Allen_okc
16 May 2011, 1032
Sorry about that - the new 48 volt battery pack configuration is now at the Drag bikes thread...

frodus
16 May 2011, 1050
with the chopper build, are you using 38120S cells? or 40160S cells?

you'll need bussbar to connect 6 cell ends together for a 24s3p setup.

Allen_okc
16 May 2011, 1101
with the chopper build, are you using 38120S cells? or 40160S cells?

you'll need bussbar to connect 6 cell ends together for a 24s3p setup.

there's no doubt im lost when it comes to the LiFePO4 battery cells, what do you recommend... i just never had a chance to explore them... but im learning...

im wanting to goto the 72 volt set up for the chopper, daily rider to work, 10 miles one way all in city driving, never reaching over 50 mph...

frodus
16 May 2011, 1153
like I said before, come back with a HARD limit on speed and distance, think about it. Until then you can't start designing a battery pack.

Allen_okc
14 June 2011, 0519
the Spaz II project is on its way to its build - a honda magna has volunteered itself to be sacrificed for the greater purpose.

i bought the front forks sunday, and the frame is on its way... the head tube will be cut from the magna frame and welded onto the fabricated frame. looking for a yamaha fzr swing arm for the rear... this bike will definetely be a frankenstein bike for sure...

the batteries so far will be one or the other - the headway battery box will be capable of holding 100 cells, Thanks to the measurement that Ed gave me and for the other option five agm batteries in a custom battery box...

havent decided yet - photos and videos will be covering everything as soon as the parts are collected...

sentinel
14 June 2011, 0537
Very neet project.

What type of BMS will you have, or did you mention that?

Allen_okc
14 June 2011, 0632
im thinking more of the Ed style of bms system... a hundred headways is going to cost me enough as it is...

but we will see, things can change from now till then...

sentinel
14 June 2011, 0931
Ed Style? I will have to look that one up.

frodus
14 June 2011, 1012
individual chargers on each battery. They're small, but they do the job.

Allen_okc
16 June 2011, 0705
i really want to use a onboard charger, so it seems there maybe no way around without some sort of BMS system...

and eventually use some type of magnetic generator...

i know this may sound stupid, but a motorcycle with bicycle pedals, pedaling only to charge the batteries... im not going to do that, but the though crossed my mind...

frodus
16 June 2011, 0824
yeah, pedaling as a pro might only get you ~100W without the electrical conversion, so it'd take a ton of pedaling to generate anything useful.

I'd say use some sort of BMS if you're using an onboard series charger (not individual).

Allen_okc
16 June 2011, 0935
i have to agree with you Travis, its just the cost is killing me...

frodus
16 June 2011, 1040
what is your pack worth? Is it worth it to protect it?

larryrose11
16 June 2011, 1041
Average power of lond duration athleets can creep up on 200W, but pulse power, like a high jumper, can be over 7kW!!!

frodus
16 June 2011, 1051
Average power of lond duration athleets can creep up on 200W, but pulse power, like a high jumper, can be over 7kW!!!

Average power of 200W, even then, with power conversion of generator and converter.... it's still kinda low.

I'd hate to add that extra weight and try to pedal it too.... prolly spend more on that than batteries that'd get you the extra 200wh (which is about 6 10Ah headways)

HighlanderMWC
16 June 2011, 1119
And you'd also have to add the efficiency drop due to the knees being spread wider by the frame. Not to mention trying to pedal in a motorcycle helment and riding gear.

Allen_okc
16 June 2011, 1314
pedaling a motorcycle would definitely look pretty stupid...

Allen_okc
16 June 2011, 1316
but it is possible...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7aapY_yMnQ&feature=related

BoneFire
17 June 2011, 1317
You might want to leave this builder a message and see if you can get some specs on his e-chopper?

His website (http://www.electricfire2011.com/) has very limited information, but looks like he's wanting to build & sell these.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTSLN8qzD-E&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Allen_okc
20 June 2011, 0522
i already have specs set up for the bike Thanks to Ed and the fellows here. i've already started collecting parts and the build is already on the get go, photos to follow when the frame building gets started... all that is left is the neck "head tube" and i can start cutting and welding the frame...

Thank You Bone Fire the link, its good that there are folks out there building chopper bikes...

Allen_okc
20 June 2011, 0538
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5HpOLVn2v0&feature=related

Allen_okc
11 July 2011, 0758
This is the latest update for the Spaz II project...

The forks wheels and new look im after for this bike...

im going to start the battery box to house 96 headway cells, and start the frame building this weekend...

Allen_okc
21 July 2011, 0537
im very curious about using a drive gear, like the one a honda shadow has. compared to using a chain drive...

i have an option to do either...

has anyone used the drive gear in their build before...

Allen_okc
27 July 2011, 1044
i started the choppers custom battery box - to hold 88 headway cells 22S4P...

17"h X 17"W X 8"D...

Allen_okc
28 July 2011, 0656
gettin closer...

Allen_okc
28 July 2011, 0747
another photo... Honda Shadow VT500, going 72 volt electric - 22S4P headway cells...

get ready Manzanita, im still be ordering the cells...

kelly controller;
http://kellycontroller.com/kd7240024-72v400aseriespm-p-238.html

or

Altrax - does anyone have a recommendation for one of these controllers? street use...

frodus
28 July 2011, 0831
how many volts? What motor? If it's brushed PMDC or series wound, Alltrax AXE 7245 if its 72V and 4845 or 4855 if it's 48V.

One thing that would REALLY help (that others have done), is to go back and edit the first posting so that it has all that information in there. Things like Chassis, Motor, Controller, Batteries, BMS, Charger, DC-DC, etc. That way we don't have to go through 8 pages to look it up, we can just pop to the first page and take a peak.

Allen_okc
28 July 2011, 0908
first page has a collective of what im aiming for with this project...

frodus
28 July 2011, 0919
I'd use an alltrax, they're well proven and I've heard from several people (maybe they can chime in) that there is a difference of power between kelly and Alltrax AXE. The Alltrax usually wins. This is comparing both 400A models. Alltrax has been around for years (kelly is in what, their 3rd year) and have had relatively low failures.

Also, go 24 in series, 22 isn't 72V. Chargers (and possibly BMS) are going to be hard to find for 22s.

Allen_okc
28 July 2011, 1041
you and ed have the same opinion, therefore im with the both of you - the drag scooter was one thing, but this chopper i dont mind throwing money into it.

it has a purpose "TRANSPORTATION"... Thank You Travis...

the update of the battery box...

DaveAK
28 July 2011, 1120
Carpetted workshop? :D (j/k) Even my house doesn't have carpet! My garage does have a heated floor though. :D

Allen_okc
28 July 2011, 1220
yep - its hard to keep clean too...

Allen_okc
04 August 2011, 0537
here is a photo of the frame before it gets cut up to fit the EV version...

Allen_okc
10 August 2011, 1036
latest updates, new tire for the rear harley davidson wheel and the top to my custom battery box...

ZoomSmith
10 August 2011, 1347
Cool Lid. How thick is the sheet on it?

Allen_okc
11 August 2011, 0730
its actually pretty thin and light - .063 or 1/16" thick aluminum - i'll be working on the cooling fins today...

Nuts & Volts
11 August 2011, 0824
Allen, I have a Kelly 72V PM controller with regen that I am not using (much) http://kellycontroller.com/kd7240124-72v400apm-with-regen-p-239.html that I may be interested in selling for cheap in the near future. PM me if you may be interested down the road and ill give you more details.

-Kyle

Allen_okc
11 August 2011, 1229
i appreciate it Kyle, but Ed's selling me his 72 volt Altrax, he wants to get me away from kelly... although i like kelly controllers...

but if you still have it later i would be interested for other projects in mind, like a trike...

Nuts & Volts
11 August 2011, 1320
i appreciate it Kyle, but Ed's selling me his 72 volt Altrax, he wants to get me away from kelly... although i like kelly controllers...

but if you still have it later i would be interested for other projects in mind, like a trike...

I'm not in any hurry to sell it, but ill post here first when I am

Allen_okc
12 August 2011, 0559
I'd start with battery first


yeah i got 32 headway cells right now, but that number is going to change to 88 before long... im just trying to collect parts so i can start working on the frame...

Allen_okc
12 August 2011, 0627
just to let everyone know how this bike will be put together - talk about a Frankenstein bike here it is...

first of all i start with 1985 vt500 honda shadow frame with title - chopped apart for just the section of the neck - frame restructured with 3/4" 13 gauge steel tubing, to lighten the bike - honda magna forks, because they are the longest factory forks compared to the shadow - a shadow fork tree - harley davidson wheels and rear fender - magna front fenders - custom handle bar - tear drop gas tank hallowed out - custom chopper seat - fiberglass chin for the frame...

as you all know, custom battery box that is shaped to look like some kind of a nuclear power plant with fins that will hold 88 headway cells and room for the battery management system i hope - im using the same mars motor "ME0709" from the scooter - 72 volt altrax controller "Ed's" bless his heart...

and i had a brain fart last night, put a fake exhaust on the box so i can channel the battery cables to the motor as a way to hide them...

all LED lighting system - they have DOT approve headlights right now just a bit expensive, but this is my daily rider so it will be worth it to have...

and a wing and a prayer to keep things going...

frodus
12 August 2011, 0846
With LED headlights, the savings really isn't all that much, and really not worth it. If you're gonna switch to something, get some HID lights. Higher output per amp than incandescent and LED.

Allen_okc
12 August 2011, 0911
but dont they draw a lot of juice?

Allen_okc
12 August 2011, 0919
http://www.customdynamics.com/high_intensity_led_headlamp.htm

frodus
12 August 2011, 0944
watts is watts though. 2.5A is about 30W. There are 35W HID's out there that are pretty bright, smaller and cheaper to replace. They also don't tell you how many lumens at low/high beam, so you can't really calculate lm/W.


Gas discharge is higher than most LED things out there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy

the theoretical limit isn't commercially available.

ZoomSmith
12 August 2011, 1027
Downside to the HID kits is that you have to find a place for the Ballast.

Allen_okc
12 August 2011, 1030
well you all did give me something to think about - one thing is for sure, we need the brightest light we can get for a motorcycle.

if anyone has ever ridin a motorcycle with a defective headlight can tell you how important it is...

frodus
12 August 2011, 1117
Downside to the HID kits is that you have to find a place for the Ballast.
True.... but isn't there a lot of room behind the front fairing (if you have one)?
They're not that big on the 35W ones, 55's I'm not sure.

Allen_okc
15 August 2011, 0518
my gutted fuel tank would probably fit one - i'll check into it...

updates to my custom battery box...

this box will hold 88 headway cells, which im hoping will be enough power for the 72 volt system...

frodus
15 August 2011, 0840
dude, that looks pretty cool!

EVcycle
15 August 2011, 0901
Looks like your welding is getting better. :):)

Very Cool.

EVcycle
15 August 2011, 0903
but dont they draw a lot of juice?

I have 8 Headways that run all of my electronics (headlight, tail light, relays, GPS, etc) for hours.

Allen_okc
15 August 2011, 1052
Thank You fellows - the final will be, the box will be painted wrinkle finish black with the edge of the fins shaved, the buffed aluminum cap and the side pieces buffed...

the front serves as a inlet for charging - still trying to decide how to bring out the cables to controller... my thoughts are either the spark plug area will be the cables or come out with the fake exhaust to the motor...

the air intake will be made from fiberglass to channel the air to the mars motor...

so far it isnt very heavy at all, maybe about 15 lbs... i havent weighed it yet...

the steel tubing is in and with the battery box almost finish, i can now fit the frame to the box...

I think your right Ed, im starting to get the hang of welding aluminum... it is really different from welding steel...

Allen_okc
24 August 2011, 0700
here is the battery box with its wrinkle finish paint job...

the parts are starting to come in, so i'll be doing the frame building session this weekend, with photos...

:cool: poor honda shadow, twas a good machine in 1985, but no more - now its becoming the motorcycle to ride with the future for 2011/2012... :o

EVcycle
24 August 2011, 1143
Oooooooooooo .... Very cool!

Allen_okc
29 August 2011, 0626
well new progress on the E-chopper... frame building...

Allen_okc
30 August 2011, 1256
i have question - if a mars motor is used to spinning in one direction, will it lose efficiency if it is turned around and now has to spin in other direction...

in other words i have the chain on the right side of the scooter, and i put the motor in the chopper where the chain is on the left side...

teddillard
30 August 2011, 1305
i have question - if a mars motor is used to spinning in one direction, will it lose efficiency if it is turned around and now has to spin in other direction...


Nope! Same either way.

Frame looks AWESOME!

Allen_okc
30 August 2011, 1404
Thank You Ted...

i know it sounded like a stupid question, but i wasnt sure if it mattered or not to change rotation after a break in of the motor...

i just got my rear brakes and they mount on the right hand side, thats where i normally mount the sprocket instead...

teddillard
01 September 2011, 0615
Actually, I was wrong. I just got this note from John Fiorenza from Motenergy (with some new dyno plots on the ME0709 motors, which I'm getting up on my site ASAP) with this comment:
"Note that these motors are set for CCW rotation. The efficiency in the CW direction is not as good due to the timing adjustment on the motor. If you need CW rotation, then the timing needs to be adjusted."

Not sure if he saw this thread, or the spirit just moved him to bring it up, but there you have it, from the horses mouth.

Allen_okc
01 September 2011, 0707
wow - that means with the sprocket and gear on the right side, its not as efficient as if it where on the left side for CCW rotation...

Thank You Ted...

teddillard
01 September 2011, 0722
That's correct, but I'd send John an email. I'm pretty sure he can change the timing, or tell you how, to adapt for your rotation. Also Ed does a lot of work with him, maybe he knows?

Allen_okc
01 September 2011, 0801
well the motor is going to the chopper project, which the motor gear will be on the left hand side for a CCW rotation.

unfortunately for the scooter, its days are numbered... it will be all about the chopper before long and the scooter will be scrapped - its whole purpose was to be a teacher, and it has been a good one...

the chopper will be tested at the drag strip, and the scooter will do a couple runs out there as well...

after the chopper is complete, i intend to build another EV drag bike, but one more like Jeff's Predator...

Allen_okc
06 September 2011, 0851
it was a busy labors day at my end of the world - progress on the electric chopper...

DaveAK
06 September 2011, 0914
Nice work Allen!

EVcycle
06 September 2011, 1222
You have been busy!

Looks great.

There is way of changing the timing, but it requires some drilling of the brush plate (plastic)

I will take a look to see if I still have the procedure for that.

Allen_okc
07 September 2011, 1126
maybe that should be on a new thread - how to tune your motor... i know i would like to know as much as i can about the mars motor and im sure that there are others who would too...

im just really kicking myself for not realizing that the motor can be timed - i know it makes a big difference with the RC cars, so why not the mars too...

when i was building the bike, i could have placed the gear on either side of the bike, but for some stupid reason i picked the right side, i guess to simulate a scooter...

fortunetley the EV Chopper will be placed in a CCW rotation...

I know we will appreciate any information on tuning a motor ED, Thank You...

Allen_okc
15 September 2011, 0605
this was a brain fart i had months again and finally got working - the air comes in at scoop which is also pulled in by a 12 volt fan and forces air over the batteries and then to the controller that will be mounted on the side of the battery box and exhausted through the back fins to help keep everything as cool as possible and to keep it weather proof, i hope...

Allen_okc
15 September 2011, 0606
and another stupid video by me...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI3nbn0MVRw

Allen_okc
27 September 2011, 1041
update of the chopper...

Allen_okc
29 September 2011, 0511
upgrade of the foot pegs and brake...

Allen_okc
04 October 2011, 0821
new updates... motor installed...

frodus
04 October 2011, 0917
gotta say, you did a nice job!

teddillard
04 October 2011, 0946
SWEET!

(The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.)

DaveAK
04 October 2011, 1015
Sweet!!!!!

DaveAK
04 October 2011, 1016
(That's how you do it Ted. :) As if you didn't know.)

Still, when's Mike going to drop that character limit?

teddillard
04 October 2011, 1028
oh.

(The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.)

DaveAK
04 October 2011, 1135
:rolleyes:

Allen_okc
04 October 2011, 1141
i had a dream the other night - i was actually riding this bike on the Arizona hwy 40 heading west... it was one of the greatest moments of my life it seemed...

:( i cant wait till it really happens...

DaveAK
04 October 2011, 1157
It won't be long at the rate you're going!

Allen_okc
04 October 2011, 1205
:rolleyes: Thank You Dave...

podolefsky
04 October 2011, 1224
dude...that is super bad a$$

nice work

teddillard
04 October 2011, 1325
:confused:

Allen_okc
04 October 2011, 1340
i start the fiberglass fake gas tank next week, or as i call it - the console...

i went over several custom shapes and watched many episodes of american chopper - i finally came up with a design that should enhance the bikes looks...

i will be doing a step by step video on creating it... i think you all will like the look of it, totally custom...

Allen_okc
05 October 2011, 0521
this is what im hoping to get the bike to look like...

Coninsan
05 October 2011, 0907
Looks yummy!
Can't wait to see it in the "flesh" :D

Allen_okc
10 October 2011, 1042
i didnt get very far this weekend other than welding on tabs and making a cover for the controller - but i did get some of the material for making the fake gas tank... these photo where taken today...

Allen_okc
17 October 2011, 0514
another update of EV Chopper - it finally has a kick stand and i began the console mold making...

i decided to use the spray foam for the foundation, from which i will be using plaster of paris to do finishing shape. once that is done i will cover it with aluminum foil and begin laying the fiberglass on it...

this week i should start painting the frame...

Allen_okc
17 October 2011, 1031
here is a map of where most things are going to fit onto the motorcycle...

Allen_okc
24 October 2011, 0638
the chopper took a bit of change in the fake gas/console and seat look - a combination of traditional chopper and sporster has made this project take a better profile than before...

instead of the fiberglass fuel tank/console - i went with aluminum...

im pretty sure im at that point where im going to need to start collecting those batteries...

DaveAK
24 October 2011, 0823
It's looking good Allen!

Allen_okc
25 October 2011, 0522
Thank You Dave - i cant wait to ride it - im thinking about doing a on fire paint job...

larryrose11
29 October 2011, 1033
Looking good. Im jealous.

Allen_okc
31 October 2011, 1153
here is the final photos of the bike - the frame is done as far as all the welding is concern, now i get to take everything off the frame so i can paint it a sweet gloss black and then put it back together...

While i had the motor out, i was still able to pick this bike up completely off the ground - its looks heavier than it is. with the motor in it i can barely lift it...

SplinterOz
31 October 2011, 1627
Looking sweet... real chopper look.

zhao7931de9
01 November 2011, 0146
my choice of weapons when it comes to designing is Corel Draw and 3D Carrara... both can design to scale and used on a CNC or plotter for full scale hard copy...

http://www.makemoneymakemoney.net/huang4.jpg
http://www.makemoneymakemoney.net/huang2.jpg
http://www.makemoneymakemoney.net/huang3.jpg

Allen_okc
01 November 2011, 0520
Thank You Splinter... im getting closer to riding it...

zhao - those are my choice of weapons too... most sign shops use corel draw for our designing and plotter / printer / cnc machines...

Allen_okc
01 November 2011, 0521
Looking sweet... real chopper look.

just ignore the ugly mug sittin on the seat...

teddillard
01 November 2011, 0538
Hey man, just checked out your video, thanks for the shout-out! Looks great!

Allen_okc
01 November 2011, 0550
im working on a 3D video for EV motorcycles - i hope you dont mind but your book will be in it, along with credits to you and everyone else here - all in the good light...

EVcycle
01 November 2011, 1248
here is the final photos of the bike - the frame is done as far as all the welding is concern, now i get to take everything off the frame so i can paint it a sweet gloss black and then put it back together...

While i had the motor out, i was still able to pick this bike up completely off the ground - its looks heavier than it is. with the motor in it i can barely lift it...


That is starting to look really cool, Nice job there Allen!

Allen_okc
01 November 2011, 1338
Thank You Ed - im finally getting to the fun part, painting and customizing it... i found a 12 volt dual air horn system for the bike that is 2X louder than a car horn and all kind of little chrome things for dress up...

but i still need to start saving up for those batteries...

Thank You also for the heads up on the gears...

Allen_okc
08 November 2011, 1435
the frame has been stripped down and de rusted from all the months of building - now it has the etching primer on it and i have begun with some light bondo work to clean up the joints...

Allen_okc
15 November 2011, 1233
new updates on the frame painting process - im hoping to have a black paint job tomorrow on it so i can get started on the wiring this weekend and re assemble it back together...

i cant put it off much longer - im gonna have to start buying more batteries from Manzanita again...

at this point in the photos, its been mainly about cleaning up the edges and corners with bondo and painters caulk... it did get reprimered with etching primer again, its looking like a smooth piece of plastic...

EVcycle
15 November 2011, 1621
Good clean work there Allen.

Keep the photos coming!


Chopper Ed

Allen_okc
16 November 2011, 0649
Chopper Ed huh - sounds like you have a new project in mind? care to shed some light on it...

Allen_okc
17 November 2011, 0657
:p OK this is a bit ahead of myself with this Concept 3D artwork - but the bike should come out pretty close to this rendering, i thought i would just share it with you all...

im also considering a name for the bike, which no name will be displayed on it, except maybe for car show events in the display - "FANG BANGER" - thats all i'll say about that for now... :rolleyes:

Allen_okc
18 November 2011, 1224
FINALLY - i finally got the frame painted, which means i can start wiring and assembling the motorcylce - YEH!!!

Allen_okc
30 November 2011, 0926
:( ive been wiring the bike for a week now - it seems like i only get one step ahead each day...

so far the motor, controller, contactor and throttle is done, and ive started on the driving lights, which is all circuit breaker fuses and LED lighting except for the H4 headlight - i havent even made it to the gauges yet and the battery packs monitoring and charging outlets...

:) so last night i took a break from it all and came up with what i think is a kewl mural that i will use on the bike - so i thought i would share it with everyone...

Allen_okc
07 December 2011, 1505
here is an updated photos of my build thus far - it was all about the frame making, now its all about the wiring, endless miles of wiring...

oh yeh, that is my section of the dining room being occupied by my bike...

EVcycle
07 December 2011, 1513
It looks like it "blowed up" and parts are everywhere! :):):)

Allen_okc
08 December 2011, 0615
the sad thing is ED, it feels like it...

im just surprised im not in trouble with the ole bag of dirt girlfriend of mine... im kidding shes been great about it...

Allen_okc
28 December 2011, 0652
Special Thank You to all of the fellows here on Elmoto...

Allen_okc
28 December 2011, 0654
More of those boring updates of what is going on with the motorcycle - for the newbies, im building a EV motorcycle out of a 1985 Honda Shadow VT500 - with the frame restructured to fit the new components, the custom built battery box that looks like a engine, and the gas tank this is the bikes console...

the battery box can hold 88 headway cells - this bike is a 72 volt system, mars motor, alltrax controller and the rest is just plain motorcycle components, part harley davidson and part honda...

the harlonda? or Honda Davidson?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vwap_o40PI&feature=youtu.be

Allen_okc
28 December 2011, 1333
i thought i would add this line to bring this thread back into the recent list...

Allen_okc
05 January 2012, 1151
my way of hiding the wiring to the battery box, plus the 12 volt battery pack...

EVcycle
05 January 2012, 1231
Steel braided hose?????





I like it!

Allen_okc
06 January 2012, 0756
it was the only thing i could think of to protect the bms, gauge and 12 volt power wires from the battery box so they wouldnt be exposed...

DaveAK
06 January 2012, 1023
That hose is definitely a nice touch and a great idea!

Allen_okc
06 January 2012, 1034
:rolleyes:

Allen_okc
16 January 2012, 0947
here is another update, not much in progress - more about money at this point...

the problem was converting from a mechanical speedometer to a digital speedometer that was designed for a car...

problem, from a speedometer cable to a hall effect speed sensor from intellitronix;

digital speedometer...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130448439820?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

and the sensor...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130452833134?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

from my favorite nut and bolt place ACE Hardware; i used two brass fittings to reduce a 1/2 to a 7/16 and a piece of brass square tubing - connecting the speed cable to the square brass tubing and attaching to the digital speed sensor...

just in case anyone could use this info...

the final electronic equipment to finish is the 72 volt bar graph which the LED readout has to be modified for the new instrument cluster - photos later for that progress, but i will say its going great so far...

which leaves me with final on the photos, is as you can see there are no exposed wires for tampering with by the general public, they cant get too them...

the four headway cells ive used for the 12 volt system has hooked up for a week now, and there has been no drainage at all on them...

the next test will be when the alarm system is hooked up, then i'll know how long i can leave the armed before the batteries become dangerously low... i havent done a test on how long the batteries will run the headlights, but thats coming up next...

Noah, from the video where you were testing your motorcycle and there was snow on the ground, im sure the temperature was below freezing, i was curious as to how long you rode your motorcycle before the batteries started losing power... im hoping to ride most of the year round...

larryrose11
16 January 2012, 1442
Good looking display there. Nice work!

Skeezmour
16 January 2012, 1505
here is another update, not much in progress - more about money at this point...

the problem was converting from a mechanical speedometer to a digital speedometer that was designed for a car...

problem, from a speedometer cable to a hall effect speed sensor from intellitronix;

digital speedometer...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130448439820?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

and the sensor...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130452833134?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

from my favorite nut and bolt place ACE Hardware; i used two brass fittings to reduce a 1/2 to a 7/16 and a piece of brass square tubing - connecting the speed cable to the square brass tubing and attaching to the digital speed sensor...

just in case anyone could use this info...

the final electronic equipment to finish is the 72 volt bar graph which the LED readout has to be modified for the new instrument cluster - photos later for that progress, but i will say its going great so far...

which leaves me with final on the photos, is as you can see there are no exposed wires for tampering with by the general public, they cant get too them...

the four headway cells ive used for the 12 volt system has hooked up for a week now, and there has been no drainage at all on them...

the next test will be when the alarm system is hooked up, then i'll know how long i can leave the armed before the batteries become dangerously low... i havent done a test on how long the batteries will run the headlights, but thats coming up next...

Noah, from the video where you were testing your motorcycle and there was snow on the ground, im sure the temperature was below freezing, i was curious as to how long you rode your motorcycle before the batteries started losing power... im hoping to ride most of the year round...

So many great details on your bike. It is going to be so much fun showing it off (have to ride it alot....thats an order!) :)

Allen_okc
17 January 2012, 0943
Thank You fellows - i most certainly will be riding it back and forth to work daily as much as possible...

Come April 23rd at a motorcycle show, ive been asked to bring the bike there with a guaranteed spot in the show... which is an honor to me since ive never been asked before...

which will be a good spot to show other motorcyclist that there are alternatives even for motorcycles...

EVcycle
17 January 2012, 1648
Very Cool!

If you need any more of the stickers, let me know!!!


Ed

Allen_okc
18 January 2012, 0613
Thank You Ed - i hope everyone here appreciates you as much as i do...

everyone should know this man saved me from the endless sphere madness that was going on at that time and brought me here to you good folks...

Thank You Ed and the same goes for you, anything you need, just let me know...

Allen_okc
13 February 2012, 0701
well im finally happy to announce that the rear wheel is now attached to the motor - that leaves brakes, custom paint job and batteries to make the motorcycle complete...

so i will definitely be riding this spring and for sure to make it to the motorcycle show this April 23rd... ;)

shaunmza
13 February 2012, 1021
Hiya,

I followed your drag bike thread and this one too.

I think its great that the bike is taking shape, and all the small detail work you are doing to it means one could walk around the bike quiet a few times and keep seeing something they missed.

With those fins, you are going to get more than a few puzzled looks as you cruise by, nice work!

Allen_okc
13 February 2012, 1148
Thank You Shaunmza - people who have seen the photos of this bike always say the same thing "what kind of engine is that"...

then i tell them what it is and they have a second look and ask "what powers it"... go figure, im sure it will confuse a lot of people, but thats ok...

Allen_okc
22 February 2012, 1349
:cool: here is a update on the paint prep that started this week - the airbrush paints will be in tomorrow, special Thank You to Dice for his advice on the type of paints for me to use...

:eek: the vinyl wrap is a pattern i will use as a guide for painting, plus i have a vinyl wrap for something else if i need it...

oh yeah and the custom chain guard i made out of aluminum...

Allen_okc
24 February 2012, 1139
well i got gooder news - the airbrush paints are in and the parts have the black base coat on, so hopefully i can start the airbrushing part of the paint which i will video...

:D again Thank You Dice for advice on the createx paints...

http://www.tcpglobal.com/createx/createx-colors-kits.aspx

:cool: and we will see if i still have what it takes to custom paint a motorcycle...

Allen_okc
27 February 2012, 0750
finally got the parts painted...

first of all these photos are the second attempt - i got to say that painting realistic flames is harder than it looks, so I went back to a more traditional style of flames, all airbrushed...

i have six coats of Nason urethane clear on the parts, for the purpose of a process called ultra fining, which this is done by wet sanding using plenty of water and 2000 grit wet or dry sand paper, then buff the clear coat with buffing compounds and finish with a polishing liquid - which the result is a glass smooth finish...

the under side of the tank will get a rubber coating to protect the circuitry from shorting out from contact of metal...

a video will be out this week with parts installed...

podolefsky
27 February 2012, 0916
Nice work man. Those look great.

Allen_okc
27 February 2012, 0939
:rolleyes: Thank You Noah...

Skeezmour
27 February 2012, 1043
This bike is going to be SO sweet. Great work Allen.

yankee1919
27 February 2012, 1059
Allen-okc,
When is your estimated time of completion? Will you keep a log on mileage and power consumption?
Tony
Los Angeles

Allen_okc
27 February 2012, 1132
Thank You everyone, im hoping to be riding this early spring with that silly EV grin...

im down to getting batteries and change out the front wheel, im not liking the honda CB rim, but i found a honda shadow wheel that will fit the bike better...

but i have a lot of batteries to buy, Thank You Skeezmour for the info "24s3p" is the total goal of the headway batteries, i have 32 now and i need a total of 72 and luckily i planned for the battery box to carry 80 cells...

Allen_okc
28 February 2012, 0731
this is just a quick video from this morning, i would like to do a more in depth video later this week...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDMN-6p6rlA&feature=youtu.be

teddillard
28 February 2012, 0736
dude, that is EVERYthing! CONGRATS!

Allen_okc
28 February 2012, 0901
Thank You Ted - now if i can just figure out how to get it out of living room...

i think i did that build a boat in the basement thing...

Hugues
28 February 2012, 0944
looks cool !
i must get into gear to get my project started !
thanks for the video

podolefsky
28 February 2012, 1948
like the kids say - that is SICK

you might need the sawzall to get it out of the house, but it would be worth it

frodus
28 February 2012, 2006
No offence meant to anyone but I think that's the best looking diy build I've ever seen. Great work. You sure set the bar high.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

moon
29 February 2012, 0820
Just read through the entire thread, excellent work! Some very nice attention to detail.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

Allen_okc
29 February 2012, 0827
Thank You Everyone - the motorcycle show is coming up April 23rd at the Chesapeake Arena here in OKC and there is over 1300 entries this year so far including mine. so well see how it does...

but i definitely need to be riding this bike before then...

i got a question - when i get that EV grin, does it eventually go away, or will I be stuck with it like the Joker on Batman... :o

Allen_okc
06 March 2012, 0821
:O Not Again NOOoooo - another video that has a better walk around the bike...

I couldnt find a hot model to show with the motorcycle so i dug one up...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsFiMRu07ag&feature=youtu.be

soyachips
08 March 2012, 0239
Hi Allen,

Just read this thread cover to cover and I'm really impressed with the bike. Love all the detailing and can't wait to see it finished :)

Awesome job to you sir!

Andrew

EVcycle
08 March 2012, 0918
Very, Very Cool. Great work! Now some riding video?

Allen_okc
08 March 2012, 0957
Thank You Ed - believe me i cant wait till i can... its all about the batteries now - i need 40 more headway cells then i should be able to start riding just as tornado season gets here, which has already started happening...

one other thing i hope you dont mind, but i have put several info ads on my bike, like manzanita, el moto and Juiced Drag Racing, etc... so im hoping you mind...

EVcycle
08 March 2012, 1503
I am honored!

Allen_okc
12 March 2012, 1011
:confused: can you all double check my battery layout...

yankee1919
12 March 2012, 1254
Awesome! :cool:

Allen_okc
12 March 2012, 1359
:D Thank You Yankee, I appreciate it...

SplinterOz
12 March 2012, 1440
I found it hard to follow all those straight lines ;) but it does seem to make a circuit. Mind you I must be tired, for a while I could not figure out why you had four up on their own at the top.

EVcycle
12 March 2012, 1613
Way too 2D for me. (Dyslexic. ADHD, and Left handed person I am )

I would have to see it in real time. :O

ZoomSmith
12 March 2012, 1647
Looks good Allen.
I highly recommend assembling the connectors in the circuit order and checking voltages after each plate is attached. Don't ask me how I learned this.

SplinterOz
12 March 2012, 1653
Looks good Allen.
I highly recommend assembling the connectors in the circuit order and checkingg voltages after each plate is attached. Don't ask me how I learned this.

I second that! It is amazing how much metal can disappear in a blink of the eye.

Allen_okc
13 March 2012, 0547
:o thank you everyone - the bms wiring is going to be a bit confusing but doable - the four extra cells on top is the 12volt system for the running lights and alarm system - and yes, it does have a dc to dc converter for the gauges...

the alarm system tested out pretty good, one whole week with the alarm activated, dropped the cell down to 12.9 volt, from 13.2 volt, hardly any drain at all... with just the alarm screeming it dropped to 12.5 volt and with all the running lights on and the alarm screeming it dropped to 12.2 volts, when everything is turned off, it went back to 12.9 volt...

Allen_okc
15 March 2012, 0712
:O Did a light test and alarm system test last night, everything was working fine except the right spot light... but i fixed it and its all gooder now...

still working on changing the security alarms voice. i want to change it to godzilla...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh4TgnCY6vs&feature=youtu.be

rabar10
15 March 2012, 1244
:confused: can you all double check my battery layout...
The separate 12V pack isn't wired up properly -- you want a series connection between each of the four cells, but right now all you have is 2 cells in series and the other two with only one terminal end connected. FYI.

The main pack looks great, nice clean layout.

Allen_okc
16 March 2012, 0620
i appreciate it, but the 12 volt is set properly...

:) its not a very clear picture, but it is positive to negative, negative to positive hook up and is working with 13.2 volts... :cool:

rabar10
16 March 2012, 0711
Are the external +/- tabs connected on the back side then?

As long as it works, that's what counts! :)

Allen_okc
16 March 2012, 1328
:o yes sir, flipping the image is a bit confusing the way i have it...

Allen_okc
19 March 2012, 1150
just when you think things are going well - BAM - it hits you, i had a brain fart to put a better front wheel onto the Harlonda motorcycle...

the honda CB wheel fit the magnum forks, but the 94 shadow front wheel didnt...

the shadow axle much bigger than magnum - cure, swap bearing axle now fits...

problem shadow rotor doesnt match magnum brake caliber position - cure, grind brake mount down to bring caliber closer to the fork... problem cured...

the 98 honda shadow front wheel now fits the 85 honda magnum forks, now if the speed sensor fits i got it made...

reason why, so the front wheel will match the harley davidson rear wheel, which to my amazement the honda brakes fits the harley wheel and levers...

what a Frankenstein bike, the Harlonda...

Allen_okc
27 March 2012, 0933
:eek: i building my own foot peg mounts, since its hard to find peg mounts without the forward controls, plus i wanted something a little more custom - the Chesapeake Arena motorcycle show is this April 23rd, running out of time...

:p anyway i purchased the gussets from ebay and cut the steel from 14 gauge sheet i have and using a 3/4" steel tubing - welding the head of the bolt into tube, grind smooth and paint. so far pretty simple...

:cool:

by the way the honda shadow wheel now fits the honda magnum forks, it took some modification to do but its all better now - the only problem is i couldnt get the speed sensor to fit, but i relocated it to the back wheel and all is good...

JJROB80
27 March 2012, 1216
Cool now you can see how fast your burn-outs are -- lol -- Just a thought

Allen_okc
28 March 2012, 0859
:D well the fabricated foot peg mounts fit and look awesome, ready for paint - the front wheel all together, which puts me back on track for the bike show...

Hugues
28 March 2012, 0912
cool design :cool:

Allen_okc
28 March 2012, 1105
Thank You Hugues, look who's talking, your chopper is going to be awesome...

:( Bad News from my end - i just got into a car wreck, going down the freeway and shoved the front of the mustang under a pickup... everyone is ok, but im feeling little soar... film at eleven oclock...

PS - i think i soiled my pants...

Skeezmour
28 March 2012, 1117
Dang get better soon.

Allen_okc
28 March 2012, 1219
i will as soon as i get my britches cleaned... but thank you skeezmour...

Allen_okc
28 March 2012, 1256
:cool: the pegs came in - daddy like...

Allen_okc
04 April 2012, 0708
:cool: Another update on my EV Chopper - video proof that a Honda Shadow wheel with the speed sensor can be made to fit a Honda magnum forks - and a view of the digital speedometer working...

the speedometer is for a car but i converted it to work on a motorcycle...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Dm8oeo3Jc&feature=youtu.be

EVcycle
04 April 2012, 1029
Very cool

But since it was made for a car, does it is missing wheel syndrome?


Have you checked it to a GPS yet?

Allen_okc
04 April 2012, 1316
not yet on the GPS sync - this gauge uses a cycle count per mile to calibrate, according to the instructions...

mark off one mile, press and hold to start calc, ride exactly one mile and stop, push the button again and it sets the cycle count to one mile... speedometer is now calibrated...

of course i wont be able to test it until i get all of the batteries i need, darn...

the problem was getting the stock motorcycle speedometer cable to mount to the digital speed sensor, separate of the speedometer...

Allen_okc
04 April 2012, 1332
:cool: here is a update on the foot pegs...

and a extra shot of the contactor and fuse block under the seat...

Skeezmour
04 April 2012, 1345
Great work Allen!

Allen_okc
04 April 2012, 1350
:) ah shucks, it wernt nuttin. but Thank You Skeezmour...

Allen_okc
13 April 2012, 0720
:cool: Good News - started ordering the 40 more headway cells from manzanita today - with my budget i can only order 10 at a time, so it will take a few weeks to get the cells i need...

and then for the long awaited test run - whew hew!!!

EVcycle
13 April 2012, 1549
YeAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! :)

Allen_okc
09 May 2012, 0513
:D getting, closer more batteries more - need 24 more cells and it will be riding time...

Allen_okc
19 June 2012, 0804
OK the moment is here.

:cool: First i would like to Thank the good folks at Manzanita - the last of the 24S3P battery cells will be here Thursday...

:cool: Second i would also like to Thank Everyone here at El Moto...

:( Now that the test ride is almost here, im finding myself spooked by riding this beast, the more i think about firing this chopper up the more scared im getting about riding it...

:O anyone else ever get that feeling about their motorcycle before the first test ride???

Allen_okc
19 June 2012, 0807
just a reminder of what machine im talking about...

Allen_okc
25 June 2012, 0806
the work begins with creating the bus bars that will be cut buy a CNC router, using 1/8 inch aluminum - getting closer...

the four cells missing will be pulled from the motorcycle and added, in case anyone is wondering where they are...

:cool: 24s3p = 72 cells...

Allen_okc
12 July 2012, 1109
Gooder News - my chopper has finally left the living room and back to the shop, where the batteries will be wired into it and the test ride will begin - REAH!!!

EVcycle
12 July 2012, 1226
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, (Part 2)

mcf12
17 July 2012, 2039
Nice.

Allen_okc
18 July 2012, 1039
:cool: Its finally getting close enough to start the test ride - using 72 headway LiFePo4 cells configured as 24S3P - i have all the cells and as soon as i get the battery pack wired together the next video will be of its first test ride - this bike was a 1985 Honda Shadow with some HD parts is now all electric...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGfRZOlyrL0&feature=youtu.be

mcf12
18 July 2012, 2148
Allen, such an awesome, clean build. I am doing a 24s3p headway setup too. Would love some advice on your charging setup when you back from that first ride.

Did you do bms yet?

teddillard
19 July 2012, 0208
wow. Man, that thing is beeeoooooooo tyful.

1320freek
19 July 2012, 0412
Very Sharp looking, Clean build!
Really nice job!!!

podolefsky
19 July 2012, 2117
dude - seriously, that is f*cking bad ass.

i gotta go change my underwear.

Allen_okc
23 July 2012, 0826
:rolleyes: Thank You everyone - now comes the time of the battery pack, as stated before 24S3P headway battery pack. all the bus bars are now attached and now for the charging wires and voltage gauge wiring hook up...

:p Now im sure i will get a bad grade on the fact i wont be using a BMS system for the pack, as i ducks a runs away - using the individual charging method which i used before always gave me a perfect charge every time. and those same 32 cells that are in the pack now, are and have been working properly with no issues.

i dont recommend this for everyone, but i feel this is the simplest and least expensive way to go...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C5eS4Cr-9g&feature=youtu.be

;) OK now you all can line up with baseball bats and clubs and take your best shot at me...

:O OWH, darn it skeezmore, that hurt...

MESSAGE TO ED - the doors are in...

Skeezmour
23 July 2012, 0840
I don't swing that hard :) When you can I would at least get something that can show voltage of every cell. I run that same pack and I would have done bad things to them if I couldn't see the cell fail.

Looks great man. Full ride coming soon?

Allen_okc
23 July 2012, 0923
:cool: No you dont swing that hard, im just a tender foot...

i've have gauges monitoring the pack in 24 volt sections, hoping that if there are any differences in voltage reading, that will indicate a problem and require proper action to fix the problem... i know that is very chancy, but with the individual cell charging procedure, it will start off with every cell balanced...

i can tell when there is a issue, cause the individual chargers generally shut off in close enough order, indicating the cells are ok... if one is charging more than the others, then a closer look is needed...

but your right, and im working on that with reading the cell levels...

A-Bomb
23 July 2012, 1026
I loove that "tank" shape, paint job and overall look of the bike, which is a big improvement over the original Shadow. Also howit looks kind of like engine cooling fins where your battery pack is.

Can't wait to see that 1st ride as soon as you get the chance.

Allen_okc
23 July 2012, 1114
im hoping to fire it up this week, im pretty sure its gonna be a kick ass ride...

a question for skeezmour - i have a cell logger that Ed gave me which im using for the other project, but im looking at adding three of these cell loggers to my pack.

http://www.ev-power.eu/en/By-Brand-Manufacturer/GWL-Power/Cell-Logger-8-cells-1-battery-USB-port.html?listtype=search&searchparam=cell%20log

do you approve them??? or do you have a better suggestion...

Skeezmour
23 July 2012, 1119
im hoping to fire it up this week, im pretty sure its gonna be a kick ass ride...

a question for skeezmour - i have a cell logger that Ed gave me which im using for the other project, but im looking at adding three of these cell loggers to my pack.

http://www.ev-power.eu/en/By-Brand-Manufacturer/GWL-Power/Cell-Logger-8-cells-1-battery-USB-port.html?listtype=search&searchparam=cell%20log

do you approve them??? or do you have a better suggestion...

Seen them used on a bunch of bikes and I'm of the belief that almost any cell level monitor is better then none at all. That is a good place to start. Having an indicatior (warning light) when a cell is either to low or high sure helps. If one goes low only after full throttle for 5-10 seconds no problem, if it goes low during gentle accelleration then we have a problem.

My $.02