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CharlesZaden
17 June 2011, 0805
So after much trouble and frustration, I have finally acquired a 1982 Honda cb650 (with a title, thank God) for electric conversion. Right now it's just a rolling chassis with a good bit of rust, but it does have the original odometer and tachometer. The Odometer is mechanical so it will be staying for the final product. I'm really looking forward to working on this and am open to all advice you guys have to offer. I will post pictures soon. Right now I don't actually have a camera; this will be rectified this weekend.

*Disclaimer*
This project will take me a long time to complete due to the lack of immediate funds (thanks college) and knowledge. That being said posts on progress might be fairly spaced out. Just working with what I've got :)

CharlesZaden
17 June 2011, 0809
What I'm looking to get out of this bike is just a short commuter, max range ~30miles and a max speed of ~40mph. I might look into upgrading sometime in the future but for now this is all I really need for a small town with low speed limits and short distances. I'll post more on what I've got in mind for this build later.
Feel free to post questions, comments, etc. All are welcome. :)

frodus
17 June 2011, 0939
budget?

30 miles is possible with Lead Acid to start, and would be cheaper. 40mph is easy.

CharlesZaden
17 June 2011, 1743
looking at less than $2400. I'm actually looking into possibly using headways [(38120(10AH)] I know they're much more expensive, but If I want to upgrade later i figure the transition would be easier. plus the lack of weight would be great. Of course, I might be completely wrong.

Saruman
17 June 2011, 2215
Hey CharlesZaden,
Welcome, and good luck on the conversion. I'm (slowly) working on an '80 CB750F myself, and there are at least two more vintage CB750's here (jbpanichella and EVcycle) so you've got some references there. For a low budget, you should probably stick with lead batteries - I've got 150kg of AGM batteries lined up, which give me 48V and about 3.9kWh to 80%DoD. Note, however, that a set like this would already bite a large chunk out of your $2400.

CharlesZaden
19 June 2011, 1859
Thank you Jan,
It's definitely nice to know there are others out there with the same project. :)
As nice as it would be to start with some LiFePo4's, i think you're right and I'm going to start with lead or some similar battery.

Still hoping for the day when batteries aren't so freaking expensive... :(

Also:
I'll post pictures tomorrow, and I'm hoping to begin work on the lights soon.

Allen_okc
20 June 2011, 0525
the fellows here can definitely help with the lifepo4 battery information - i couldn't of done without them...

CharlesZaden
20 June 2011, 1050
Alright So here she is...
1349
1348
1347

She's a little rough but nothing a little TLC can't take care of. I've already stripped the frame down to a rolling chassis. All of the main removable frame parts (handlebars, front and rear lighting, etc.) are in fairly good condition and will be restored for use in the final EV.
I'm very excited to begin working on it.

CharlesZaden
21 June 2011, 0833
Okay so after a good deal or research, here's kinda what I've picked out as far as a setup (so far):
Motor: Motenergy ME0709 http://www.motenergy.com/me0709.html
Controller: Alltrax 4844 http://www.alltraxinc.com/Products_AXE.html
Batteries: 5 Optima D51 Yellow tops (4 for main functions; 1 for lights, horn, etc.) http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/?gclid=CL-i-cOkx6kCFRQg2god61IZcw#deepyellowspecs
Gear ratio: 4:1 (haven'e decided on teeth number yet)

definitely going for a 48V system, don't know if I mentioned that yet.

These parts (assuming I can only find them at market value) puts me at around $2050 which leaves around $350 for misc. parts, wires, gages, chargers, etc.
not sure it that'll cut it with the budget I've got in mind, but I've got access to some extra parts so we'll just have to see.

Let me know what you guys think. This is all based on my limited knowledge base so there's bound to be some discrepancies :)

Saruman
21 June 2011, 0924
Note that with 4 of these Optima's for your propulsion, you won't get very far. I've created a spreadsheet for my CB750F, and plugged in your battery and your numbers. 40mph means something like 98Wh/mile, so 30 miles take 3.0kWh, while your Optima's will deliver only 1.1kWh under the stress.

First of all, for your battery choice: I'd consider the Odyssey Extreme Racing 40 (http://www.odysseyfactory.com/extremespecs.html) - at almost the same weight, they've got 45Ah so 18% more energy and 18% higher C. Slightly better Peukert constant (1.089 instead of your Optima's 1.1255) also means less power loss at higher amps.

Going with four Odysseys, considering Peukert effect and 80%DoD you're now eating 193% capacity of the 4 Odysseys - can't do that.
Now, 8 Odysseys deliver 3.2kWh to 100%DoD, so you'll reach your destination but hammer your batteries at 1.38C and 91%DoD.
My pack of 12 (4s3p) provides 5,0kWh to 100%DoD, so I'd run your 40mph/30mi at 0.92C and to 58%DoD. But yes, you'll be carrying 420lbs of batteries for propulsion, and you'll likely need to widen your frame to house them (see http://www.saruman-electromotive.nl/fotoboek/02_strip/05_batterijmockup.jpg for my solution).

Hope this helps

podolefsky
21 June 2011, 1211
Hey Chris,

Lead acid is an inexpensive way to get started. You don't actually need 5 12V batteries, what people usually do is use a DC-DC converter to run lights and such. This takes the whole pack voltage and turns it into 12V. It saves weight since you have one less battery, and keeps the cells from getting out of balance (since that one for the 12V system will get used a lot less than the rest).

Is there a particular reason you're committed to 48V? You could go with 6 lower Ah batteries instead and have a 72V system. It might actually turn out cheaper with more capacity.

Do you have a Battery's plus near you? If you're working within a budget, their Werker batteries are actually pretty decent. They make a sealed lead acid (http://www.batteriesplus.com/product/32627-WKA12--35C-12-Volt-35Ah-Werker-Battery/100085-1/102629-SLA-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Batteries/102645-Werker/12V.aspx), 35 Ah that will work just fine for $75. They also make a high discharge battery (http://www.batteriesplus.com/product/43116-WKHR12--33C_FR-Werker-12-Volt-33Ah-High-Rate-AGM-Battery/100085-1/102629-SLA-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Batteries/102645-Werker/12V.aspx) that might be a little better for an EV that's $104. Six of those would be the same price as 4 Optimas, and they'd give you 2.5 kWh.

My opinion is that eventually (probably not far off) you will want 72V and lithium. You might as well get set up for that, and save as much as you can on the lead batteries. If you're draining them every ride, every lead battery is going to give you 200-300 charge cycles at best. Not really worth spending extra for nicer lead because the differences are pretty small.

Saruman
21 June 2011, 1231
...save as much as you can on the lead batteries. If you're draining them every ride, every lead battery is going to give you 200-300 charge cycles at best. Not really worth spending extra for nicer lead because the differences are pretty small.
Can't say that I agree here. For instance, Peukert constant for lead batteries varies wildly between 1.09 for my Odysseys, up to 1.31 for a Fullriver DC115-12. That means that if you stumble upon the wrong battery, the Wh/kg (or Wh/lbs for quaint people) can turn out significantly less than you expect. And there are different types of deepcycle batteries; if you use the wrong lead battery and pull lotsa amps, cycle life could be unbelievably low even if you observe 80% DoD - 150? 50? A really wrong battery choice, and cycle life will be 1 :).

Well at least that's what all my internet research says (but hey, it's on the internet, so it's true, right?) But then again, mebby I'll change my tune when my bike gets to actually ride :eek:

podolefsky
21 June 2011, 1411
Jan, you're absolutely right. There are significant variations between lead acid batteries...people have built EVs with Walmart car batteries. They work...for a while. I wouldn't recommend it. The Werkers I suggested are actually pretty decent, especially the high power ones, and I think you'd get better performance with 6 Werker's than 4 Optimas or Odysseys for the same price.

That's not to say the Odysseys aren't better. It's just a matter of getting the most performance you can within your budget...and what your future plans are. If you're trying to get something up and running, and plan to upgrade to lithium in a year or two, there's little point in paying a premium for top notch lead batteries. Especially if you could put the money you save into the drivetrain (which will still be there in a year or five).

CharlesZaden
21 June 2011, 1823
Wow, you two are very informative to listen to :)


If you're trying to get something up and running, and plan to upgrade to lithium in a year or two, there's little point in paying a premium for top notch lead batteries. Especially if you could put the money you save into the drivetrain
This is yet another excellent point. My only problem is that I much as I would love to, i don't know if I'll be able to make the upgrade in a year or two... only time will tell. I think I might do that though... but what I really need to do is create some mock-ups to see how much room I really have to work with (battery-wise) since i really want to avoid having to expand the frame.


A really wrong battery choice, and cycle life will be 1
yes... definitely want to avoid that :) Good luck with your build by the way!

one of my main concerns with the batteries is that I would want the financial trade off to be significant (>$200) to sacrifice longevity for "up and running"
I feel like have 4 Optima D34s (55Ah 2.6Kwh) would be more or less the same (if not worse) as having 6 of the Werkers (33Ah 2.37Kwh).
assuming I've done my math right the cost difference is ~$180 more for the Optimas, but I'd save space, they'd last longer, and I'd save on my motor and controller... or am I wrong?

please understand that I am very thankful for the advice you have both given, but I guess I'm still a little shady on what the trade off is. :(

podolefsky
21 June 2011, 1944
one of my main concerns with the batteries is that I would want the financial trade off to be significant (>$200) to sacrifice longevity for "up and running"
I feel like have 4 Optima D34s (55Ah 2.6Kwh) would be more or less the same (if not worse) as having 6 of the Werkers (33Ah 2.37Kwh).
assuming I've done my math right the cost difference is ~$180 more for the Optimas, but I'd save space, they'd last longer, and I'd save on my motor and controller... or am I wrong?


Actually, I think 4 Optimas are larger and heavier than 6 Werkers. I don't work for Batteries Plus :) It's just that I looked into lead acid a lot a while back, so I happen to have data on them. They're siimilar to Deka Unigy's and other batteries made for high discharge and frequent recharge (like back up systems and solar).


Optima D34:
535 cu in each, 2142 cu in for 4
43 lb each, 172 lb for 4
$190 each, $760 for 4
2.64 kWh for 4


Werker WKHR12-33C:
275 cu in, 1650 cu in for 6
27 lb each, 162 lb for 6
$104 each, $624 for f
2.38 kWh

Saruman
21 June 2011, 2227
In my "not enough juice" post I've suggested that Chris needs (at least) 3.0kWh delivered at high currents, and we don't want to go below 80%DoD; neither 4 Optimas nor 6 Werkers fit the bill - even discounting the Peukert effect.

With my 4s3p Optimas, I calculate Peukert takes 26% out of the nominal capacity (other batteries fare worse!). Include Peukert and DoD, and you really need 5.07kWh nominal. I'm not running 12 batteries@150kg because I like to expand my frame, or enjoy paying 2000 for maybe 300 cycles.... Note that my requirements are almost the same as Chris's, going for 40km at 80km/h plus 10km at 50km/h, requiring 3.8kWh delivered. Thus I go for 4s3p, 6.48kWh nominal, and calculate my ride goes to 79% DoD.

On Peukert: don't overlook this guy! Give me the nominal (C/20) rating and the reserve capacity (runtime on 25A) and I'll give you the Peukert constant for that battery. It's a set of two equations with two variables to solve: Peukert constant and Peukert capacity (capacity at 1A discharge current).

Allen_okc
22 June 2011, 0546
i know from using the werker batteries, is they drain fast... as soon as you feel like riding some more they give out...

they are OK, dont get me wrong, they are good for experimenting with...

the hardest thing for me was understand that im going to have to spend a lot more on the battery issue, especially with my budget, but once you have them you'll be glad you bought them...

the optimas or the odyssey will pay for itself in the long run... wait till you start with LiFePo4's, talk about cost... its taking me several months to acquire them, using my lunch money, grocery money and fun money - who needs to eat anyway, but im dam glad to have gone this rout...

dont give up or discourage - Dice has a good alternative with the nickle batteries from a Prius...

Allen_okc
22 June 2011, 0555
here is a sample if the prius batteries on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/01-03-Toyota-Prius-HV-Hybrid-Battery-Packs-38-Cells-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a64e59395QQitemZ25080 0870293QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

DRZ400
22 June 2011, 0619
Check out PowerStar AGM's I used 6 of their 35ah agms for 3 years....over 2700 miles. And they are still going strong.....only now in my buddies trolling boat. I paid $58 each delivered. They also have a 50ah size.

podolefsky
22 June 2011, 0733
Hmmm...maybe you do get what you pay for with the Werkers. Eitherway, Saruman you're right that 3 kWh is only going to work under ideal conditions (actually driving a steady 40 mph for 30 mi). Any hills, accelerations, and yeah the Peukert effect is going to reduce that capacity.

The one thing I was thinking is that with higher voltage, you can get the same power with lower current and this will reduce the Peukert effect. But then you have lower capacity cells...who knows how it all works out.

Chris, just to put things in perspective - lithium performs better, and it is more expensive. They cost 2-4 times as much as lead. Lead gets maybe 300 cycles, lithium typically get 2000 charge cycles. You can also run them to 80% discharged or more, whereas people try to run lead to 50% or less (that 300 can drop to 150 or less if you go to 80% or more discharged). So lithium more than pay for themselves in the end.

A 48V, 40 Ah GBS lithium pack with BMS is $1544. It's a tad less kWh than 4 55Ah Optimas, but there is actually more energy available in the lithiums because of how they discharge. Just have to weigh the cost / benefit of both. But neither will get you 30 mi at 40 mph, unfortunately.

Bottom line - the tradeoff is initial cost. Long term, both on cost and performance lithium wins.

Allen_okc
22 June 2011, 0750
What Noah Said - :cool:

CharlesZaden
22 June 2011, 2348
On Peukert: don't overlook this guy!
to be honest, i'd never heard of this guy before you mentioned him, but that all makes perfect sense. I would like to know, however, how you arrived at ~3.0 Kwh for my needed rating. cause then that means for a 72V system i'd need something like 45Ah batteries (~3.2 Kwh), and for a 48V system something like 65Ah (~3.1 Kwh). is this assumption correct? it seems like a little bit much to me, but we all know what assuming does...


dont give up or discourage
haha I'll try my best Allen :) also, sorry about your lunch money


Bottom line - the tradeoff is initial cost. Long term, both on cost and performance lithium wins.
Yeah that seems to be the general consensus. However, I think that since this is my first build and %90 of it will be trial and error on my part, i think that SLA batteries are the way to go for me. This way I can get something up and running sooner, and put more money into the drive-train (I think this was one of your earlier suggestions). I can always upgrade to LiFePO4s later.

Also:
1) is there a way to calculate the amount of cycles a battery has if it's not given?
2) anybody had any experience with UPG batteries? there's a guy selling them for $50 bucks and I'm thinking it's a "get what you pay for" link (http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-35Ah-AGM-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Battery-UB12350-Group-U1-/370504892594?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA% 252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D190485 087945%26ps%3D54)
3) @DRZ400: powerstar has some 70Ah batteries as well. do you know if they're any good? they're ~$100 bucks a pop link (http://www.powerstarsla.com/agm1270.html)
4) if i dropped my desired range down to 20 miles, would this have a significant impact on what I need?
5) you guys are awesome... just saying :)

Saruman
23 June 2011, 0125
Hey CharlesZaden,
On Peukert: read this: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/peukert2.html. I've revised the original Peukert equation and created a spreadsheet formula to predict actual capacity at a given current draw. I'll see if I can write up an article about it for posting here...
On the capacity requirement: I've drawn up a model for my bike (and yours is pretty similar) which predicts roll resistance and drag at any speed. Here's the results (in metric)
Input: bike 255kg, driver 90kg; roll resistance 0.015, dynamic roll resistance 44.7m/s (meaning roll resistance will double between 0km/h and 160.9 km/h); frontal area including driver: 0.6 m^2; drag coefficient 0.83 (I probably need moderate streamlining to achieve this); chain efficiency 98%; engine efficiency: from Agni95R envelope.
This gives the following table:
Speed - drag - power at wheel - engine eff - power from battery - battery drain/km
0,1 km/h - 50.8N - 0kW - 65% - 0kW - 5 wH/km
50 km/h - 126.9N - 1.8kW - 88% - 2.3kW - 46Wh/km
65 km/h - 173.2N - 3.1kW - 89% - 3.9kW - 61Wh/km
85 km/h - 251.9N - 5.9kW - 91% - 7.2kW - 84Wh/km
120 km/h - 436,1N - 14.5kW - 91% - 17kW - 142Wh/km
I've learned that I've neglected a couple of things in my spreadsheet, like rpm/V drops under load, and controller efficiency. However, given the estimate of the drag coefficient, the calculation is only 1st order accurate anyways.

You wanna run 40mph = 64.4km/h -> 61wH/km -> 98Wh/mi
You wanna go 30 miles; worst case is 40mph all the way (because lower speed = lower consumption) = 98Wh/mi = 2.94kWh (round up to 3.0kWh for good measure). For my setup, I'm feeding my motor 32V/124A for that speed. Now for my 4s3p pack, that's 41A through each battery, just about 0.92C on my 45Ah odysseys. With Peukert messing about at 41A, my batteries have 34.6Ah to give (quite a stretch from the 45Ah nominal) but I only want to run to 80%DoD, so I only want to consume 27.68Ah. That carries my bike 66km/41 miles. Now you want to run less batteries -> less capacity and higher current = more Peukert loss. If you also have batteries with a larger Peukert constant, you're going to need that AAA service :O before 30 miles are up.

Let's see:those Powerstars: only 1 capacity given (70Ah at C/20) so I can't calculate Peukert constant. Let's assume 1.100 -> a 6s1p pack, weighing 131kg, will deliver maximum 48.96Ah at your 124A which is 3,5kWh. Barely enough, but your 3.0kWh takes your pack to 86%DoD - a little too deep. And perhaps Peukert constant is 1.20 (I've even seen a Fullriver battery that has 1.31!!), in which case your pack only has 34.1Ah/2.5kWh at 100%DoD.

Reduce the amps through your batteries (by going 2p or 3p) and choose good batteries. I wanted 6s2p, but am forced to 4s3p for range and longevity.

..... aaaaaand while doing this calculation, I've found a flaw in my power calculations. I'm ignoring my controller converting 48V to 32V/124A; perhaps my power draw is then only 48V/83A battery pack side, 28A through each battery. If that is so, then I'm less affected by Peukert - and so will you be. But mind you, the effect will be only a few percent more energy from your batteries, so fundamentally the outcome remains: you shouldn't go 1p

teddillard
23 June 2011, 0256
For what it's worth... I finally decided on using some small 22ah SLA batts as, essentially a test setup, and after a couple years now I don't regret the decision. Here's what I went with: http://www.staabbattery.com/product/sla-12/UB12220-V.html

http://www.staabbattery.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/Uv_UB12220_2.jpg

Here's my thinking. Six of these puppies is around 95 lbs, ballpark weight of a decent lithium pack. It's also about the size of the pack, too... (lead is about half the capacity and half the cost of lithium for the same size and weight if I remember correctly) so the battery mount, whatever it is you build, can theoretically handle these as well as whatever you end up with. I was getting around 14 miles on a charge, bumping around town. I learned a lot, and it cost about $300.

The other side of it is that, when I bought them, I figured the lithium landscape was changing quickly, and it still is. Lipo is, in my opinion, workable, where it wasn't really an option two years ago, and now I can get A123 cells from Mavizen. I can fit a crap-ton of A123 into the space I have for these 6 SLA batteries...

The reason I stayed away from the bigger lead options was because they're just too big and heavy, and I'd have had to alter the entire build of the bike to handle the things. It changes everything, too- the weight distribution, the overall weight, the gearing you need, all that. It's a less workable bike for practical use, but it's a really good way to work out bugs in your bike, and your learning process.

Plus, you can always use the batteries for other stuff. I've used two of them for my lawnmower, and four for my scooter project...

podolefsky
23 June 2011, 0303
to be honest, i'd never heard of this guy before you mentioned him, but that all makes perfect sense. I would like to know, however, how you arrived at ~3.0 Kwh for my needed rating. cause then that means for a 72V system i'd need something like 45Ah batteries (~3.2 Kwh), and for a 48V system something like 65Ah (~3.1 Kwh). is this assumption correct? it seems like a little bit much to me, but we all know what assuming does...

That assumption is correct, basically. But there are other things to consider. The Peukert effect gets worse as you draw more current as a percentage of the battery's Ah capacity. So if you draw 45A from a 45 Ah battery, Peukert will hurt capacity more than if you draw 45A from a 65 Ah battery. That matters if you are accelerating and slowing a lot, like around town.

But, when you're just cruising along, then you're using the same power (P = I*V), so higher voltage means lower amps and vice versa, so then the both systems perform about the same. (roughly).

As far as range, it depends hugely on speed. A good estimate is about 75 Wh/mi at 40 mph, which is 2.3 kWh for 30 mi. But, that's if you are driving a steady 40 mph, no accelerations, no hills, and no wind...etc. In reality, you're not going to get that. 3 kWh sounds about right in the real world.



Yeah that seems to be the general consensus. However, I think that since this is my first build and %90 of it will be trial and error on my part, i think that SLA batteries are the way to go for me. This way I can get something up and running sooner, and put more money into the drive-train (I think this was one of your earlier suggestions). I can always upgrade to LiFePO4s later.

Yup - totally logical. I agree with what I said before (not always the case :) )


Also:
1) is there a way to calculate the amount of cycles a battery has if it's not given?

Not that I know of (but maybe someone else knows). Even if it is given, it's hard to know how is relates to reality. Cycle life depends on how many amps you pull, how deep you discharge, temperature...lots of things in addition to the make up of the battery itself.


2) anybody had any experience with UPG batteries? there's a guy selling them for $50 bucks and I'm thinking it's a "get what you pay for" link (http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-35Ah-AGM-Sealed-Lead-Acid-Battery-UB12350-Group-U1-/370504892594?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA% 252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D190485 087945%26ps%3D54)

Don't know - I've seen those, they appear to be an inexpensive replacement for lots of brand name batteries. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for...but that's just a guess. They might be fine.


4) if i dropped my desired range down to 20 miles, would this have a significant impact on what I need?

Going from 30 to 20 mi would reduce what you need by about 33%. kWh needed is directly proportional to miles. If you could find a place to recharge at your destination, then you only need 1/2 the range.

Also, speed is a range killer. Going 40 mph instead of 20 mph uses more than twice the energy. I've taken 40+ mi rides, but I take back roads where I can go 45 mph rather than the highway where I'd have to go 60-65 (which would reduce my range considerably).


5) you guys are awesome... just saying :)

You're awesome for building an electric motorcycle ;)

Allen_okc
23 June 2011, 0659
one thing is for sure, whether you use lead batteries or lithium - you will like the feel of a electric motorcycle, your are definitely going to be hooked...

congrats on your decision...

PS - the lack of lunches, definitely took 30 pounds off the bike... meaning me...:)

podolefsky
23 June 2011, 1054
You might also look at the B&B EB50-12. 50 Ah, 340 cu in and 36 lb each. They're made specifically for electric vehicles.

I have them in my electric scooter. They've been fine.

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_batteries_agm-sla_bb_eb50-12.php

CharlesZaden
29 June 2011, 0844
sorry it's taken me so long to respond everybody. I had a lot of crap going on the last few days :(

Thank you for all of the info and links Jan, very helpful and informative

Reduce the amps through your batteries (by going 2p or 3p) and choose good batteries. I wanted 6s2p, but am forced to 4s3p for range and longevity.I'll probably end up doing something like this if I stick with the lead acids.


For what it's worth... I finally decided on using some small 22ah SLA batts as, essentially a test setup, and after a couple years now I don't regret the decision.I'll definitely look into it... just playing it by ear right now as far as funds.


Going from 30 to 20 mi would reduce what you need by about 33%. kWh needed is directly proportional to miles. If you could find a place to recharge at your destination, then you only need 1/2 the range.

Also, speed is a range killer...
Agreed. also thank you very much for all of your responses :)
luckily I live in a small college town where the speed limit is 25 just about everywhere and I'm no more than maybe 7 miles away from anything so I think I'll be just fine reducing the range to ~20 :D I'd really like too keep the max speed at 40mph though even though I won't be using it very often :)


you will like the feel of a electric motorcycle, your are definitely going to be hooked... Haha no worries, I already am and I haven't even started building :)

CharlesZaden
29 June 2011, 0853
Okay so as a slight update on finances, I have decided that the best decision for me as a temporarily poor, new builder is to setup an test system, along the lines of @teddillard's suggestion, this way I can get all of the bugs worked out, get the system working properly, and learn a lot in the process. (Not sure if I'll be able to re-purpose the batteries later or not, but we'll just have to see...)

I will be getting a well-paying job in the spring. Hopefully by then I will have most of the bike completed and will begin to switch it over to LiFePO4s (I'm thinking headways :) ) Hate I have to wait that long but such is life...

CharlesZaden
14 February 2012, 0934
Wow, so it's been a while since I've had any sort of updates for you guys, but things have finally settled down on my end of things so I hope to be posting regular updates here pretty soon.

I've spend the majority of the last few months just trying to restore the frame to a functional rolling chassis,
most things are coming well *thank you angle grinder* but still has a good bit to go.

also question for you Honda guys:
will a rim of the same dimensions fit my bike? it has been a serious pain in the arse trying to find some for this build but I think I might have finally found some.
looking specifically at the front rim from a '76 cb550K (19x1.85).

thanks, it's seriously good to be back :)

also will begin buying EV parts here very soon!

yankee1919
15 February 2012, 0946
Hello CharlesZaden,
Thank you for bringing up the topic of batteries, this thread is "Volt full" of information.

Tony
Los Angeles

DRZ400
15 February 2012, 1001
I used 6 Powerstar 35 AH U1 deep cycle batteries with a Mars 709 72v motor. Put over 2000 miles on them in 3 years and they are still going strong....when I switched to Calbs last april I sold them to my neighbor for his trolling boats. AGM batteries rarly die...they are killed. First rule is if you're not riding than the bike should be on charge (smart float charger). I used 3 on board 24v 5amp smart chargers (scooter type, $45 each).

http://www.powerstarsla.com/evita.html

Fab man
15 February 2012, 2100
I used 3 on board 24v 5amp smart chargers (scooter type, $45 each).



I've been looking for scooter type smart chargers. Where did you get yours?

CharlesZaden
17 February 2012, 0938
Update:
I just ordered the following items and expect to see them arrive within the next week or so (pics to follow)
seat, rear shocks, front suspension tube, rear wheel and rim, bearings, washer, and dust seal for my steering stem. I swear Ebay should sponsor me.

CharlesZaden
17 February 2012, 0949
Thought you guys would appreciate this:
I was long set on doing an EV but wasn't planning on doing a motorcycle until I saw this...
2695

This is a picture of my dear mother on her CB650 back in 1980. So this project is a tribute to her and how awesome she was before she had kids ;)

podolefsky
17 February 2012, 0954
That's really cool Chris. My dad rode motorcycles before he had kids too...I need to find some of those pics.

yankee1919
17 February 2012, 1008
Hello CharlesZaden,

Yes truly awesome, parents do a lot to get there kids ahead. Use this dream of building your EV for all moms and dads.
Keep running.
Tony

CharlesZaden
17 February 2012, 1137
will do tony and please... call me Chris :)

CharlesZaden
23 February 2012, 1211
So I am very close to being able to start ordering all my pieces and parts for this build. After much deliberation I've decided to get a conversion kit which includes:
Motenergy ME0709
Alltrax [AXE] 7234 72V 300A
Magura twist grip throttle
60/72V contactor.




Now the only thing left is the ever familiar battery dilemma.
@EVGator got me looking at some of the Turnigy LiPoly batteries
(specifically these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18631__Turnigy_5000mAh_4S1P_14_8v_20C_hardcase_p ack_USA_Warehouse_.html

With these I can pull about 3.5 KWh with ~72V at 50Ah (5s10p).
this all sounds fine and dandy to me, but I haven't heard of many people using these guys past RC applications.
Ted, word on the street is that you might have a piece or two for me on this...

teddillard
23 February 2012, 1315
oof. There's a crap-ton of info here on running Turnigy, and lipo in general. My own thread is here:
http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?1453-The-LiPo-Project-%28The-R5e%29&highlight=turnigy

But do a search for Turnigy and lipo here, and there's a whole lot more on Endless Sphere (which I linked in my first post on that thread ^^)

I also have a bunch of posts on my own blog- here:

http://evmc2.wordpress.com/?s=lipo

http://evmc2.wordpress.com/?s=turnigy

CharlesZaden
04 March 2012, 0950
Finally took got ahold of all of the parts I ordered, so now it's time to start putting it all back together! Going to work on getting the triple tree and front forks put together first... more to come soon hopefully.

CharlesZaden
14 March 2012, 0829
Looking into ordering this kit from Electricmotorsport.com
EMC-RT (http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_kits_emc-rt.php)

curious as to what the main differences ( /preferences) are on a pot-box throttle vs. a twist-grip
seen several of both around, with no clear reasons for one or the other...

ZoomSmith
14 March 2012, 0902
Throttle choice really boils down to quality vs. convenience. A pot box assembly is more accurate and durable (if set up correctly), but the Magura twist grip is a lot easier to install.

CharlesZaden
15 March 2012, 1237
Has anyone had any major issues with the Magura throttles?
i don't want to save $35 dollars now if it will cause me a bunch of problems down the road...

moon
15 March 2012, 1432
Have not used my magura throttle for actual road duty yet but it bugs me that there is no pin to keep the unit from rotating on the handlebar.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

podolefsky
15 March 2012, 1631
Magura is fine, just not tip-top quality. Some folks have had issues with the pot going bad, but that happens with the pot-boxes too. Hall effect is the only thing made to last virtually forever.

I ran a Magura for a while and never had an issue. I switched to PB-6 just because I wanted to use the stock throttle and controls...feels better (to me). Magura is just a little cheap feeling, but it saves a lot of complexity fabricating a way to connect the throttle to pot-box. Also saves room.

ZoomSmith
15 March 2012, 1657
I've got 600 mile of city driving on my Magura.
No malfunctions, but sometimes prone to sticking. I definitely want to upgrade to a Hall Effect equivalent someday,

CharlesZaden
04 April 2012, 0825
Received all the pieces and parts of my conversion kit this past weekend. going to try and start reassembling my chassis soon.
2993

CharlesZaden
08 May 2012, 0808
Figured I'd give some kind of an update cause I haven't been on in some time. <br>[mini rant]<br>Trying to make time between school work and my car killing itself to put some hours in on the bike. &nbsp;Reassembled the front forks only to learn that the seals that looked really good were not, and I don't have access to a vice here so I'm having to jump between my setup here and my father's shop in Birmingham, my friend that was going to help me draw up a CAD file for my motor mount to be CNC'd bailed so that another delay, and money's being sunk into my car that I can't put on batteries. &nbsp;<br>[/mini rant]<br><br>so the next feasible step for me is that I'm going to work on getting&nbsp;a hold&nbsp;of some Eastwood Extreme Chassis Satin black paint for my pieces and parts (I understand a few of you have had some pretty good results with it)&nbsp;<br>till next time...<br>