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teddillard
06 July 2011, 1014
I've heard this bantered around for a while now, and today it came from a completely different source entirely. Forget the TTXGP for small guys like us... how about getting some club racing together?

I know next to nothing... no. I know nothing at all about how to pull something like this together, but I saw the ReFuel videos and it just flat out seemed like a crap-ton of fun. Say we had a group of people interested in doing this... how would we do it?

DaveAK
06 July 2011, 1023
I think this is an excellent idea and personally think a good club racing scene should have come before the TTXGP, (outside of the IoM). I did club racing back in the UK. How you would start something up I don't know, and one problem you might have is the geographical distances. I went all over the country when I was racing, but that was in the UK so was all acheivable with a few hours driving.

I've never done a track day so I don't know how they're set up, but I think that would be a good place to start, to see how they're run. Also look into what ICE club racing events take place, where and how often. Maybe one of those clubs would be willing to embrace electric bikes.

I don't know anymore than you I'm afraid, but I think it's a great idea.

Square Wave
06 July 2011, 1052
I'm working on this, but I'm happy to have other people work on it too.

There are already racing clubs across to U.S.—CCS and WERA for example. I am hoping to get a club to give electric bikes one morning and one afternoon practice session and then one race on race day reserved for electric bikes. This way we could get a reasonable amount of track time for a reasonable price, find out what’s fast and who knows how to build it, and bring a lot more bikes to the track. There could be regional championships and a national final in the fall.

The U.S. is just too big for a privateer to travel from coast to coast several times a year. We need to have a lot more events that are a lot closer together in order to advance the technology quickly and get more people involved. Since the races are usually only 8 laps long, you wouldn’t need a huge battery. It probably wouldn’t take too long for ebikes to become competitive with gassers if we had more development time.

teddillard
06 July 2011, 1100
I'm working on this, but I'm happy to have other people work on it too.

How can we help? My first thought is to set up some sort of online group... can we do a sub-forum of ElMoto, or maybe a Facebook page? Yahoo Groups are sooo '00. :D Mebbee a wiki?

DaveAK
06 July 2011, 1100
I'd skip the national final and maybe even the regional championships, at least initially. When you've got consistently full grids maybe the top riders will have an interest in travelling to a championship event, but while the club scene is growing they'll be happy enough competing with each other and perfecting their machines. I really think that's why the TTXGP is struggling - it's trying to be too big too soon.

DaveAK
06 July 2011, 1101
I refuse to join a Facebook page. :appropriatedramasmiliegoeshere:

Square Wave
06 July 2011, 1203
If we could get a legitimate count of how many bikes would actually show up to a Mid-Western or Eastern event, then we could talk to promoters. I think that’s the first step.

BoneFire
06 July 2011, 1237
Since Yates already has been accepted to race his emc in WERA that might be a good organization to turn to. Maybe they would allow more emcs to go against the gassers based on hp/weight ratio, like they did with Yates, until you have enough riders for an emc race classification? Also, for anyone in Southern California, Chip will be at Auto Club Speedway (http://www.autoclubspeedway.com/Seating-Charts/Directions-and-Parking.aspx) with the Fastrack Riders (http://fastrackriders.com/) this weekend further developing his bike.

Good luck! If you build it, I will be there... to watch/show support.

DaveAK
06 July 2011, 1238
Maybe promote some track day events? I'm assuming that track days are run by the circuit rather than a club, (although I guess a club could also promote/arrange track days). That way you'd be able to gauge the interest from riders about actual races.

chef
06 July 2011, 1305
This is a great idea. It's a grass-roots effort that gives ElMotos time to refine performance. Losses aren't as big a deal, go back and re-tool for the next race and improve. Once the Big Boys see enough interest the $$ will light up in their eyes and they'll invest in contenders or jump into ElMotos themselves.

jazclrint
06 July 2011, 1738
I'm not sure there are enough e-bikes out there to warrant it's own club racing class. But, I thought WERA already had an alternative fuel class in their races? But, like Ted, I really like the idea of the Refuel event. Electric cars and bikes get some track time, and go for the fastest lap. If that format could get copied around the country, I think that would be an easier way to gain momentum. Once these days fill up, then look at petitioning club organizers for separate e-bike classes.

But this brings me to a different direction. First, I would argue, that in club racing e-bikes are already competitive. Second, if you really have to bang bars, I am sure any club series would be more than happyto work with and put you in a class that is suitable, as we have seen more than once (OK, twice) through out the country. And third, do we really want separate e-bike classes? Wouldn't we rather go the Chip Yates route and just start racing in amongst the ICE bikes? I know in the Loudon Road Race Series (LRRS) follows CCS guidelines, and there is a ton of classes already. Wouldn't this be a better way to get e-bikes integrated into our society?

teddillard
06 July 2011, 1742
I don't particularly care about racing to integrate anything, I just want to run the bike on the track with other bikes like mine. I don't have any interest at all in running against gas bikes.

Skeezmour
06 July 2011, 1907
Think we are going to put the Refuel event in our schedule for next year and shoot to run at least 2 cars and a bike. One of our guys ran his lead sled fiero (with a Zilla 2k and a pair of 8" motors) just to find out that while fast it just doesn't stop with the current brakes after 10 turns.

Love to see more out at events like that.

DaveAK
06 July 2011, 2022
I don't particularly care about racing to integrate anything, I just want to run the bike on the track with other bikes like mine. I don't have any interest at all in running against gas bikes.
Glad to hear it. I would love to be able to race with you just for the fun of it.

jazclrint
06 July 2011, 2234
First off, no discrespect to you John or your efforts.

And as a reply to a question above, most track days that I have heard talked about or seen written about were not organized by the track but by companies who's business is to organize track days.

I think consensus on here is to have the ReFuel format copied around the country, and to not race with the ICEs.

podolefsky
06 July 2011, 2323
Nothing stopping you from racing from cafe to cafe. No entry fee, and you don't even need to get people to sign waivers... :D

Actually, I love this idea. Mostly as a way to meet up and have fun. I have yet to even ride around town with another el moto.

I also agree that while going up against ICE bikes is cool, but also kind of misses the point (IMO). But, along the same lines I'd love to see electric bikes show up at motorcycle shows...anyone want to meet me for the next one in Denver?

Square Wave
07 July 2011, 0513
I'm not sure there are enough e-bikes out there to warrant it's own club racing class.
My experience with club racing is that they can have multiple classes on the track at the same time. So we could have an ebike class racing at the same time as gassers but not actually competing with them for points. That way we could still go on track even if only 2 or 3 bikes show up. We could compare our performance to theirs but really be racing each other. When we can consistently beat gassers then the distinction will be irrelevant.

One of the main ways we aren’t competitive with gassers is refueling time. Unless you have more than one battery, it is unlikely that you will have more than 2 sessions on track in an 8 hour day. If you have to bring your own generator for recharging, then it might take a very long time.

Allen_okc
07 July 2011, 0543
you have an ice bike, i have a ice bike - we can have slogans and special hand shakes - then we can beat up others who have gas bikes...

teddillard
08 July 2011, 1042
Actually was just looking at Google+, and it looks like it may be a good tool for organizing some rides... It's not ready for prime time yet, but we'll see.

Brammofan
08 July 2011, 1052
Actually was just looking at Google+, and it looks like it may be a good tool for organizing some rides... It's not ready for prime time yet, but we'll see. If anyone needs an invite, Send me a PM with (preferably) your gmail address.