PDA

View Full Version : Macboy's ESX-R



Macboy
19 August 2011, 1142
I figure with all the questions starting to roll out f my head I should start a bit of an "about my project" thread to give you all some background.

Bike: 1998 GSX-R 750 with a gaping hole in the engine block where a connecting rod made a break for it

Hopes/Needs/Wants:
Priority - range
Second priority - off the line get up & go
Last priority - nuclear top speed

Range - 25-30 miles
Cruising speed - 40 MPH
Max speed - 60 MPH (short durations, maybe 90 seconds tops. Not a deal breaker - can shelve this wish.)

Frequency of use - once/twice a week tops. Would have to recharge completely in a 12-16 hour timeframe for twice a week use (Fri/Sat)

Inclinations:
72 Volt system

Batteries - Looking to Headway cells for aesthetic reasons. Love the look of the honeycomb arrays. Need to bring them inside the house over the winter. Would love to go with the 16Ah 40160S cells but space and cost vs. range will come into play. Plus the 38 series cells seem to have more "out of the box" stuff like spacer blocks. Definitely can see myself needing a few of those 3 hole blocks and they don't list one for the 16Ah cells yet.

Motor/Controller - Going to follow Ted's sage advice and stick with a combo sold as a kit. Most likely Kit #4C - ME0709 with AXE 7234 Controller and Magura Throttle

DaveAK
19 August 2011, 1209
25-30 miles with a cruising speed of 40mph and a max speed of 60mph on a 72V system is very doable. That just about describes my set up although I haven't done a range verifiction yet. I've got 72V@60AH, so about a 4.5kWh pack. Doing it with Headways vs. prismatics like mine will give you a better pack, but more expensive. But you're definitely talking about the right stuff.

Allen_okc
19 August 2011, 1218
would this be the proper throttle we would need for the altrax controller...

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_throttles_magura_twist-grip.php

sorry to jump in here with my question Macboy...

as everyone slaps me upside the head...

frodus
19 August 2011, 1222
that's a great throttle for the alltrax and most other controllers.

Macboy
19 August 2011, 1223
I hope that's the one Allen cuz it's the one I had in mind ; )

No slapping required.

ZoomSmith
19 August 2011, 1304
Macboy is the 25-30 mile range requirement for your typical commute, or does that include the extra errands, etc?

I have 50 of the 40160 cells in my '91 GSX-R. So far, I have done 22 miles at an average speed of 40mph, with juice to spare (all cells 3.20-3.22V). I should have a 25 mile test complete when I get home today.

My point? The Headways are amazing, you might not need as many as you think.

Macboy
19 August 2011, 1313
25-30 miles is about the max distance of our typical Friday night coffee ride (with a bit to spare). Truth be told, this summer our rides have been barely over 5 miles long. Basically to the coffee shop and back home. Even better to need less Headways than more. When I first started seriously looking in to this I had visions of cells strapped to my helmet (like those beer hats) just to squeeze every bit of storage out of the the setup as possible to absolutely maximize range.

EVcycle
19 August 2011, 1353
would this be the proper throttle we would need for the altrax controller...

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_throttles_magura_twist-grip.php

sorry to jump in here with my question Macboy...

as everyone slaps me upside the head...

Smack!

@ Macboy: I am running what you want right now. I have run the bike as far a 40+ miles, but I do not recommend it for the longevity of the batteries.
I can do 65 MPH at any time.

80V System on a 72 volt controller. Altrax controller, Headway batteries.

Macboy
19 August 2011, 1405
Clicked your links and had a peek. Wow. You're a pretty busy builder! Which cells are you using to achieve that range?

EVcycle
19 August 2011, 1420
I had a bunch of the 38120P (High power 8AH model) left over from when we were drag racing.

I recommend a 25s5p set up of the 38120S (10AH each) OR
a 25s3p of the 40160S (16AH each). Both setups will get you what you want.

The Motor combo Ted stated will do you just fine.

teddillard
19 August 2011, 1532
... a connecting rod made a break for it

OK this totally cracked me up... gotta keep an eye on them little bastids, or they're head for the high country! :D

Great plan, and unlike a lot of first builds it seems like you're right on the money for expectations. Can't wait to see photos! (hint hint)

Macboy
21 August 2011, 1944
Quick update - and a question or two.

Pulled the ICE and related spaghetti out last night and today. Went on a full search and recover mission just out of curiosity and dug through the engine right down to the crank fishing out the bits of cylinder wall, smashed piston, mangled connecting rod bits and frazzled ring remnants. What fun...and what a MESS! It'll be so nice to do the once-over scrub down on everything and never need the likes of oil and coolant again!

The happy news is that of all the bodywork attachment points NONE of them were on or associated with the engine so it'll go back to stock as soon as it's cleaned up so it can wait for the next step - the motor mount. Likely happen in a couple months or over the winter. Happier news is that my fears of not having a lower frame cradle are just fine. There are two solid mount points at the rear of the battery bay (aka the former engine area) and two great mount locations on each side to hang my own battery cradle off of up front. It'll be bomber for sure.

Now the questions:
- I measured and photo-documented as best as I could the location of the center of the old front sprocket before I tore it down. How anal do I have to be that the new shaft centers in the same spot? (Not talking about the tracking of the chain - I know that needs to be straight as an arrow)

- I hardly cut any wire - just the starter wire and a temp sender wire. Everything else was unplug as I went so all that remains is the wires to the elements like the control switches and the lights. Should I keep the old harness around just in case or is it all "from the ground up" so there's no need?

- Lastly, how do I contain my excitement as I wait for the battery bank account to build? I really had envisioned this as a leisurely two year plan but damn...I want to work on it night and day and get ripping!

Photos coming as soon as I clean up the Exxon issue under the gaping hole now on the bike. I drained it I SWEAR but somehow there was enough lingering waiting for when I wasn't looking to make enough of a mess to make me too embarrassed to post pics.

podolefsky
21 August 2011, 2121
Now the questions:
- I measured and photo-documented as best as I could the location of the center of the old front sprocket before I tore it down. How anal do I have to be that the new shaft centers in the same spot? (Not talking about the tracking of the chain - I know that needs to be straight as an arrow)

I'm not positive, but you probably have some wiggle room. First thing is to make sure that with the new front and rear sprockets the chain won't hit anything. Second is that you can go up or down a bit (maybe +/- a cm?) if you need to to make everything fit.


- I hardly cut any wire - just the starter wire and a temp sender wire. Everything else was unplug as I went so all that remains is the wires to the elements like the control switches and the lights. Should I keep the old harness around just in case or is it all "from the ground up" so there's no need?

Keep everything you can for now, easier to take it out than put it back in. I used a lot of the original wiring from my handlebar switches, that was about it. Most of the harness you'll be building from the ground up. I highly recommend Weatherpack connectors. I did a writeup building a wiring harness here (http://www.colorado.edu/physics/EducationIssues/podolefsky/electric_motorcycle_howto_wiring.html).


- Lastly, how do I contain my excitement as I wait for the battery bank account to build? I really had envisioned this as a leisurely two year plan but damn...I want to work on it night and day and get ripping!

How did I deal with this? By working on the rest of the bike and planning planning planning. The time waiting for motor and batteries forced me to do my homework, and find things to do aesthetically that I would have skipped if I had everything all at once.

And reading elmoto...


Photos coming as soon as I clean up the Exxon issue under the gaping hole now on the bike. I drained it I SWEAR but somehow there was enough lingering waiting for when I wasn't looking to make enough of a mess to make me too embarrassed to post pics.

Excellent! Pics are always good.

podolefsky
22 August 2011, 0908
One more thing I forgot to say about shaft location - front to back you have a lot more wiggle room. It just needs to line up with the swingarm when the suspension is compressed under your weight. A bit low is better than a bit high.

frodus
22 August 2011, 0959
Well, kinda. Keep it as close to the pivot as possible.

The problem is, with more torque, your motor causes the bike to crouch more under acceleration. The further forward, the worse it is.

podolefsky
22 August 2011, 1123
Yes, try to get close to the pivot. If the shaft is in front of and slightly blow the pivot, the chain will make the same line as if the shaft is right at the pivot. This should eliminate most of the effect.

Macboy
24 August 2011, 2252
Finally some pics. Stripped down and then back together....minus one engine and all the entrails.1593159015891592

Allen_okc
26 August 2011, 0705
aaah the smell of another gasser gone away, and the birth of an EV motorcycle... :cool: