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moon
06 February 2012, 2202
Hello all!
Spurred on by Mr. Dillard's recent post I've decided to finally step out of the shadowy corner and throw my hat into the ev project ring. I've been formulating plans on-and-off for at least a year to make myself an electric motorcycle; well, it seems to be happening! I've been reading, scratching my head, and re-reading for quite awhile. This stuff can be a bit confusing to the uninitiated.
In addition to a full time job and "full-time" AAS degree program I figured, hell, why not add another layer of complexity?
At the tender age of 33 I have only had but one motorcycle, a 1980 Honda CB750F (which I built up a little (http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/habu/DSCN0534-1.jpg)) and the process of building it taught me a lot about motors and motorcycles but I've grown to find ICE kind of messy and noisy. Owning the CB-F for the last 5 years has been quite the adventure but it's time for a new challenge.

Enter a CBR600 that is about 1/3 complete. I originally bought it just to harvest the suspension and rims for my CB-F but an ev conversion would be so much cooler. After a bit of a false start a couple months ago I'm finally making some serious progress. I've got plenty of desire to make this happen but some days I feel I'm in way over my head(mostly after reading the posts here ;) ), time will tell, eh?

Frodus (Travis) hooked me up with a sweet Advanced K99 series motor,the batteries are Headway 40160S 16Ah in 24s4p, the controller is an Alltrax SPM-72400.

More details to follow...

2604260526062607

Pardon the mess. :o

frodus
06 February 2012, 2232
Looks great man! That motor fit in there pretty well!

Great looking pack mockup, that's about where I am too. Fitting everything in the frame.

So glad that motor is being put to use, it's one hell of a motor.

podolefsky
06 February 2012, 2337
Nice work moon. Seems like we're going to see a few of these style headway packs come together soon.

Also one of the first builds I've seen with the Alltrax SPM. Interested to see how it works for you - they seem like a nice controller.

And oh yeah - since you're in ft. collins and I'm in Boulder, we should start some sort of front range elmoto posse. The coastal crowds shouldn't have all the fun...

Allen_okc
07 February 2012, 0708
:cool: welcome moon - looks like you got a good start...

there are going to be a lot of EV motorcycles out this year - :D its good to see...

moon
07 February 2012, 2203
That motor fit in there pretty well!

The motor fits very nicely, and your motor mounting plate is serving as an excellent starting point/mockup placeholder. I eyeballed two holes in the plate and it's pretty much a done deal!

2612

The green cross is the center of the shaft and the black line is the swingarm line. It's my understanding that the shaft being a little low in relation to the ideal swingarm line is OK, as long as there is sprocket clearance, correct?

The position of the motor is as close as I can get to the frame without breaking out the sawz-all, which is something I'd normally enjoy but in this case would prefer not to cut into the frame.

2611

It's a happy accident that the CBR frame cradles the motor like this.


Nice work moon. Seems like we're going to see a few of these style headway packs come together soon. Also one of the first builds I've seen with the Alltrax SPM. Interested to see how it works for you - they seem like a nice controller.

ZoomSmith's pack was the inspiration, seeing SplinterOz's pack come together was the confirmation. I'm also lucky that I have easy access to a 3 axis CNC router and can make up my battery holder prototypes from foam and refine the design as needed before committing to UHMW-PE. The current design is the third iteration of the foam models after the CAD (https://www.google.com/search?q=cardboard+aided+design) work, natch. ;)

I like the SPM so far, it's a replacement for a Kelly that never had a chance. Even having not really used it yet the overall the user-friendliness of the Alltrax is so nice. It's great to just be able to plug in a USB cable and connect, especially since none of my laptops have serial ports. :) It has a nice terminal layout and the construction feels robust. I like that it's made in the USA too. It is an open design so I will take some moisture precautions but since the bike probably won't see much rain I'm not going to worry too much about that.


And oh yeah - since you're in ft. collins and I'm in Boulder, we should start some sort of front range elmoto posse. The coastal crowds shouldn't have all the fun...

Heck yeah! Love the Flux Motorcycles logo BTW!

moon
07 February 2012, 2216
It's like staring into the infinite money vortex.
2613

ZoomSmith
07 February 2012, 2236
The green cross is the center of the shaft and the black line is the swingarm line. It's my understanding that the shaft being a little low in relation to the ideal swingarm line is OK, as long as there is sprocket clearance, correct?

Ideally the swingarm line will hit the center of the shaft, with the full weight of the bike and rider. I'm guessing yours will be pretty close once you add all the hardware and yourself. Nice job.

podolefsky
08 February 2012, 0900
That's a nice tight fit on the motor. Actually looks kinda "stock".

Yeah, let's do a front range elmoto thing when the weather warms up, and your bike is ready. I know a few other folks around that would love to join in.

Allen_okc
08 February 2012, 0929
It's like staring into the infinite money vortex.
2613

welcome to our world moon...

yankee1919
08 February 2012, 1021
Moon,

Love the build, btw since I am the newbie how will you protect or encase the batteries? Will the battery "tray" be removable?

SplinterOz
08 February 2012, 1516
Moon, wonderful... I love how you are getting it all to fit very nicely. Good idea with the battery holders not to have "shoulders" that hold the battery in place between the plates. I have these and they will make construction and maintenance a pain.

Nice size pack with 64ah...

moon
10 February 2012, 1650
Actually, my final design was going to have shoulders but your comment has made me rethink how the plate will fit together. Because of your comment I think I've come up with a better pack design overall, thanks!

moon
10 February 2012, 1706
From this thread. (http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?708-1986-Honda-VFR700F-project-eVFR-2.0&p=25898&viewfull=1#post25898)


Don't forget that there is significant rearward deflection of the front wheel under braking, particularly with non USD forks.

Hmmm, deflection is something that I had not considered when designing my pack, I was using the existing body work as a template for what would fit and then tired compressing the forks to get a good feel for the clearances. Looking closer at the bodywork I can see areas where the tire may have contacted the lowest portion of the front "scoop", my pack basically conforms to the same dimensions. Is is possible to anticipate the amount of deflection in the front forks in a heavy braking scenario?

2653

There is about 2.25" of minimum spacing between the tire and the plates. Maximum fork compression on the right.

moon
22 February 2012, 2158
Whoooooo! Bench test of the drive system worked the very first time! I'm so stoked!

podolefsky
23 February 2012, 0815
Sweet! You're making progress fast on that thing.

podolefsky
29 February 2012, 1537
Moon, have you decided on a BMS for your system?

moon
29 February 2012, 2052
MiniBMS is what I went with, it looked to be a good balance of features and price. Got a SS relay to allow it to control the onboard charger.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

Allen_okc
01 March 2012, 0639
;) hey moon do you have a link to the mini bms your using???

moon
01 March 2012, 0701
Sure thing Allen:
http://www.cleanpowerauto.com/MiniBMS.html

I went with the centralized version, it looks well thought out.

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podolefsky
01 March 2012, 1017
Cool. Let us know how it works out for you - I'm trying to figure out a BMS solution for a possible Headway pack.

Allen_okc
01 March 2012, 1327
Thank You Sir...:cool:

moon
01 March 2012, 1800
Have not had the time to spend on the project in the last week, feel so behind. Have been getting the partial CBR up to 'almost complete' status. ebayed a headlight, taillight, wiring harness, new circular key ignition, foot pedals, wheel spacers. A long list, I will probably spend a bit more than I should've jut getting the chassis in shape. Got the charger today, an ElitePower Solutions EMC72-10. It's really nice and it should fit under the tank no problem, might even be able to fit it without cutting the bottom out.

One hiccup. It seems the company I bought the remaining 72 Headways has decided to take my money, not return phone calls, and the website is now dark. :( :( :(
All will work out (I think anyway) but still, very frustrating. Especially given that the 40160S Headways are no longer in production and will probably be tricky to source.

moon
01 March 2012, 1803
Thank You Sir...:cool:

You're most welcome!

Noah, I will begin to cut the bus bars as soon as I lock down the battery situation and will begin photo documenting my BMS adventure.

I need to take more pictures. ;)

ZoomSmith
01 March 2012, 1859
Who did you order the headways from?

frodus
01 March 2012, 1900
Man that sucks. What company?

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ZoomSmith
01 March 2012, 2046
A quick search of headway suppliers shows the website for CurrentEVtech is now just a bunch of links.
Unfotunately, this is typical of a hosting company when the customer doesn't pay the bill.
Sorry Moon, its a black eye for the EV community too.

moon
01 March 2012, 2103
Yep, unfortunately, that be the place. I had ordered 24 40160S headways through them six months ago with no problems. This time, the money was charged immediately but communication was very poor. I did get one email two weeks after I paid saying that they would check if they batteries were available and get back to me... Live and learn I suppose.

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frodus
01 March 2012, 2124
Read threads on diyelectriccar. See if others are resolving their issues. Sorry man. See if you can get credit card companies involved.

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moon
02 March 2012, 0822
Yeah those threads don't paint a good picture, they were part if te,reason I started getting worried about a week ago. Unfortunately, the main thread got locked a few months back. I'm starting the chargeback process today, hopefully it all works out ok.

In happier news, when I got some funds I'm going to buy my batteries through Manzinita Micro. I will transition my design from the 40160 16Ah to the 40152 15Ah headways. Lose some capacity but at least the vendor will be reputable.
Anybody want to buy 24 never-stressed 40160s? :)

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moon
02 March 2012, 0959
Talked to my credit union and submitted the chargeback paperwork, sounds like everything should work out ok.

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podolefsky
02 March 2012, 1022
Sorry about the battery nightmare, glad you're getting it worked out.

Question about your pack build - what are you planning to use for the plastic frames? Acetal, ABS?

I've been looking into that stuff and it's crazy expensive for 0.5" thick, like $250 for a 2'x4" sheet. Just wondering where you plan to get the materials from.

moon
02 March 2012, 1045
I'm going to be using reprocessed black UHMW polyethylene. I've been experimenting with a few small chunks, it's a dream to machine. I have not ordered the sheets yet but when I do I will be ordering from onlinemetals.com, they have a good selection and good prices.

HDPE would be the cheapest plastic from that site but can't get it in black. ;)

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podolefsky
02 March 2012, 1112
ah - cutting board material...sweet, thanks.

moon
02 March 2012, 1143
Yep, hdpe is cutting board.
Uhmw has really impressed me in its physical properties. Strong, somewhat flexible, and very very easy to work with. Also apparently its delelectric constant is 900kV/cm so 72V is not going phase it a bit.

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Nuts & Volts
02 March 2012, 1239
I think this place has the best prices from what I've seen. http://www.drillspot.com/raw-materials/plastics/plastic-sheets-film-and-flat-stock/
I actually got the material (acetal and Nylon 12x12 sheets) in 2 days I think with free shipping.

frodus
02 March 2012, 1240
Good luck with the batteries. Hey let me know if you want to reorder and i can try to get good pricing directly from headway. The only issue here is that they don't make 16ah anymore. Only 15, 12, 10 and 8ah so the design would need to change.

Uhmw is what i am using for mine too. It machines well and is pretty light. I paid about 200 for a 2*4 sheet of 3/4" thick uhmw.

http://www.evfr.net/coppermine/albums/06-06-11/normal_Picture_004.jpg

Can't wait to see more.

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podolefsky
02 March 2012, 1347
Cool - they have 1/2" HDPE, black, 24x24 sheet for $36...and free shipping. Deal!

UHMW and acetal are a bit pricier. [edit] Did a little google - looks like UHMW and HDPE are the same density. UHMW is intended for wear parts, holds up to abrasion better and is self lubricating. Some folks say HDPE machines a bit better. HDPE is about 20% cheaper.

Drillspot is a division of Grainger. They have the same stuff, so if you have a Grainger in town you can ship it to store and just go pick it up.



I think this place has the best prices from what I've seen. http://www.drillspot.com/raw-materials/plastics/plastic-sheets-film-and-flat-stock/
I actually got the material (acetal and Nylon 12x12 sheets) in 2 days I think with free shipping.

Nuts & Volts
02 March 2012, 1426
Drillspot is a division of Grainger. They have the same stuff, so if you have a Grainger in town you can ship it to store and just go pick it up.

Yep, I'm pretty sure that is why I got is so fast.

moon
02 March 2012, 1844
Sweet! That place does have good prices and a better selection of sheet thicknesses. Thanks for the headsup.

moon
13 March 2012, 2055
Progress seems to be in fits and starts every week or so. Have continued to collect CBR parts, misc bolts, and raw materials. Ordered the battery holder plastic today, went with black HDPE 2" thick for the center section and .75" thick for the outer plates.
Finally prototyped out the motor mount and my design looks like it should work without too much trouble.
2870
The revised rendering.
2869

The latest battery pack renderings, going to do a final round of foam prototypes before I commit to the ($$$) plastic and aluminum.
2872

I've been really enjoying getting much more comfortable with this parametric modeling program but have been bumping up against the limitations/drawbacks to Alibre Personal Edition. I should see if work has a spare Solidworks seat available. :)

Next step is to start polishing the crude wiring diagram with which I've been toying. Might be in for a steep learning curve...

ZoomSmith
13 March 2012, 2113
If your SolidWorks License Server is like ours, you may be able to "check out" a license for the evening.

moon
23 March 2012, 1445
I'm not posting as many updates as I would like on this thread but here is some of the things that I've been thinking about...

About a week ago I made my first attempt at CNC milling, which went really well! Having not had much experience on a Bridgeport I quickly became comfortable enough to produce this:
29182917

I might do a Mk.II to clean up some mistakes and change the design slightly. (Plus, Noah just set the bar a little higher :) )

I've been going through many iterations of the battery pack design and now that I have all the raw materials I'm gearing up to produce something real soon. I've designed what I think will be a fairly straightforward swappable pack idea. The elmoto is rapidly going from parts to progress!



Now for the introspective part: I originally started this project as a personal goal mixed with a school project justification. The more progress I make, the more it feels like this is the right avenue to pursue in my life. Not having a huge amount of education I sometimes feel in over my head but would really like to contribute to the success of electric vehicles and their gradual adoption with the mainstream road-going public. It's my intent to take this as far as I can. It's because of the support, inspiration, and knowledge this site makes it possible that the build can even happen.
Thank you elmoto.net!

podolefsky
23 March 2012, 2156
That looks friggin great man. That aluminum looks familiar :)

Y'all better watch out, CO is representin!

teddillard
24 March 2012, 0638
DAMN! The gauntlet has been cast! :D GREAT stuff, moon!

moon
10 April 2012, 1709
Whoo, thanks guys! Got me some updating to do!

First, cue "thus spake zarathustra":
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/IMG_4778.jpg


Mysterious object which will change the course of human evolution...?
No, probably not. :)
Just a chunk of black HDPE that's going to get cut up into side plate battery holders.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/IMG_4789.jpg

The dollar bill on top is just for size reference, not a commentary on this project's modus operandi.

moon
10 April 2012, 1714
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/Packfinalrev0.jpg
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/Packfinalrev2.jpg

Battery holders are getting their final design revision. Will start to cut them in a weeek or so.

Also, just talked to Sprocket Specialists, my sprocket is shipping out tomorrow!

moon
10 April 2012, 1736
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/IMG_4806.jpg

Glorious.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/IMG_4812.jpg

Oddly, 40152S cells are 8mm shorter than 40160S cells.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/IMG_4809.jpg

Hmm, what to do with the extra 40160S cells...auxiliary pack?

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/IMG_4810.jpg

The pack does do the trick but I already have a Sevcon 300W DC/DC and from the sounds of it, having a battery in-line with it just adds extra complexity.

Nuts & Volts
10 April 2012, 1813
you're just trying to boost your post count!

Haha kidding. You have all kinds of toys to play with now, have fun and your battery design is looking stellar right now!

SplinterOz
10 April 2012, 2156
Love the black HDPE...

moon
17 May 2012, 0956
Not a whole lot of updates(natch..) but there has been quite a bit of progress. As I mentioned I was doing this conversion as a final school project and I suceeded in getting the bike roadworthy in conjunction with finals as well as working a full time job. To say I have been busy for the last month is putting it mildly. Well, now I've graduated, gotten the project approved, and ridden the moto 35 miles! It's been quite an experience. :)

Anyway, here are the pics of it in its first configuration.
31853186318731883184

Now I'm going to disassemble the battery pack to individually check all the batteries and make sure everything is alright. I have some more bodywork to put on and some other changes to make but essentially the thing is complete, rides great and will be a fantastic commuter.

Hugues
17 May 2012, 1052
Man ! that was fast,
great build,
congratulations !

moon
17 May 2012, 1129
Ah, now that photobucket is back up, here are a few more shots:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/IMG_5003.jpg
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/IMG_4982.jpg
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/IMG_4956.jpg
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/IMG_5013.jpg

if my Cycleanalyst is to be believed, the electric can do 70!
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee71/motomoon900/EV%20pics/IMG_5012.jpg

Allen_okc
17 May 2012, 1210
:cool: Congratulations Moon - nice build...

Nuts & Volts
17 May 2012, 1228
Very cool,

Quick question, was your battery originally designed to mount higher? It looks like the V cut on the battery plastic would line up around the motor...

PS - you should really cover up those exposed terminals. At least the ones facing out. Maybe just a clean sheet of lexan mounted on top of them. Only because I really dont want to see someone accidentally get shock by that.

Allen_okc
17 May 2012, 1251
do you have a lower fairing for the bike???

Skeezmour
17 May 2012, 1335
Looks GREAT BTW! Congrats.

moon
17 May 2012, 1422
Thanks! It was a lot of fun to design, fabricate, and build.

This is not the final version, this was a quick & dirty version of what I had intended. There were a few things that got dropped to get it built in time to present to the program director. (for instance I'm not running a BMS right now :( )

Nuts & Volts, they are hard to see but there are recesses milled into the plastic holders to accept various lexan sheets to protect not only the busbars but also the sides of the cells in the front area. There just wasn't time... The motor would fit very nicely in the crook but I intended the pack to ride at the height it is now, although now that you've pointed it out I may have to see what I can do about making the fitment better. ;)

allen_okc I do have a full fairing set but I'm kind of digging the exposed battery look. I can put on or take off fairing bits as I see fit.

moon
17 May 2012, 1422
Thanks! It was a lot of fun to design, fabricate, and build.

but much, much, much, much more fun to ride! :D

ZoomSmith
17 May 2012, 1537
Really looks great Moon.


I'm kind of digging the exposed battery look
Fair warning - you will have to start watching out for drivers that can't take theirs eyes off your battery pack.

teddillard
17 May 2012, 1556
REALLY sweet, man!

Nuts & Volts
17 May 2012, 2021
Cool very well designed and looking forward to hearing more about how she performs. I really dig the exposed battery has well, maybe just paint the tank and ride her naked!

Also BMSless is nothing to be ashamed about, its risky but fun way to ride :D

podolefsky
17 May 2012, 2027
Nice dude! Glad to see the bike is up and running.

By the way, I participated in Electric Ride Colorado today (more on that soon). It's coming to Ft. Collins on May 16.

http://electricridecolorado.com/assets/pdf/EV-day.pdf

moon
17 May 2012, 2036
Nice dude! Glad to see the bike is up and running.

By the way, I participated in Electric Ride Colorado today (more on that soon). It's coming to Ft. Collins on May 16.

http://electricridecolorado.com/assets/pdf/EV-day.pdf

Haha, looks interesting but the timing a little off, might not be able to make it. :)

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podolefsky
17 May 2012, 2050
Haha, looks interesting but the timing a little off, might not be able to make it. :)

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


Wait, what? Aw crap...I think the EM fields from the EVs must have time shifted my brain. Never could get the hang of Thursdays...

moon
17 May 2012, 2059
Nice dude! Glad to see the bike is up and running.

Also, thank you! Your GSX-E definitely was much inspiration for my CBR conversion. I liked your idea of open-sourcing ebikes, so soon I will be posting more of the actual files I made up for my project build. I got a little more free time these days so should be posting more often. elmoto.net definitely made this bike possible.

If my evgrin last more than four hours should I see a doctor?
:D :D :D

moon
17 May 2012, 2110
Man ! that was fast,
great build,
congratulations !

Thanks, building it looks like its going to be the easy part. Learning the care, feeding, and maintaince of batteries...that could be a much steeper learning curve. :p

podolefsky
17 May 2012, 2119
Also, thank you! Your GSX-E definitely was much inspiration for my CBR conversion. I liked your idea of open-sourcing ebikes, so soon I will be posting more of the actual files I made up for my project build. I got a little more free time these days so should be posting more often. elmoto.net definitely made this bike possible.

If my evgrin last more than four hours should I see a doctor?
:D :D :D


nope - that's perfectly normal. i've had mine about two years and i still pitch a tent every time i go to the garage


if it's only been 4 hours and you're already thinking about what you're going to upgrade next...that's also normal

moon
17 May 2012, 2127
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGLf87QT8QI

podolefsky
18 May 2012, 0920
YEAHHHHH DOOD!!!!!

Now we HAVE TO get a CO elmoto possee together.

thesprocket26
20 May 2012, 1053
WOW! HAHAHHAHAHA that was way cool! Acceleration and speed looks great!