PDA

View Full Version : Ultra Capacitor Battery Now a reality...



Allen_okc
21 March 2012, 0848
:D I found this article to which i find very interesting and promising about replacing batteries with the ultra capacitor storage...

still in the infant stage it looks very promising - any comments???

the article;

Batteries recalled

Ultracapacitors to replace batteries

Ultracapacitors to replace batteries, Batteries start fires. Batteries pollute. Batteries wear out. Batteries can leak acid. What the world needs is a better way to store electric energy. The people who invested in Google, Amazon, and AOL are now putting their money in ultracapacitors.
New ultracapacitors can replace batteries

If a new company called EEStor delivers on its promises, storing electric power in what it calls ultracapacitors will change the world.

Among EEStor's claims is that its "electrical energy storage unit" (EESU) could pack nearly 10 times the energy punch of a lead-acid battery of similar weight and, under mass production, would cost half as much.
It also says its technology more than doubles the energy density of lithium-ion batteries in most portable computer and mobile gadgets today, but could be produced at one-eighth the cost. Tree Hugger

EEStore has contracted to deliver its first EESUs to ZENN Motor Company in 2007 to use in their electric vehicles. It also has patented "Electrical-energy-storage unit (EESU) utilizing ceramic and integrated-circuit technologies for replacement of electrochemical batteries."
What is an ultracapacitor and how does it work?

According to Clean Break via The Energy Blog

It is a parallel plate capacitor with barium titanate as the dielectric.
It claims that it can make a battery at half the cost per kilowatt-hour and one-tenth the weight of lead-acid batteries.
As of last year selling price would start at $3,200 and fall to $2,100 in high-volume production
The product weighs 400 pounds and delivers 52 kilowatt-hours.
The batteries fully charge in minutes as opposed to hours.
The EEStor technology has been tested up to a million cycles with no material degradation compared to lead acid batteries that optimistically have 500 to 700 recharge cycles,
Because it's a solid state battery rather than a chemical battery, such being the case for lithium ion technology, there would be no overheating and thus safety concerns with using it in a vehicle.

A capacitor is like a grilled cheese sandwich. The electrical energy is stored in the bread slices. The cheese needs to prevent the stored electricity from leaking across to the other side. In ultracapacitors the pressure will be over a thousand volts. The company that can solve ultracapacitor size, weight, leakage, cost, and safety issues will have the "holy grail" of electric storage.

Earth and Space Science
Life Science
History and Nature of Science
Physical Science
Math


http://www.sciencebuzz.org/buzz_tags/ultracapacitors


:confused: "My Comment" - im still going with the headway cells to complete my batter pack, but this looks good as far as future energy storage goes, but im sure its one of those i'll believe it when i see it thangs, but im hopeful...

Allen_okc
21 March 2012, 0854
here is a competition for the EEstor's people, especially since EEsters hasnt delivered yet...

http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2011/05/13/competition-for-eestor-with-activated-graphene/

Skeezmour
21 March 2012, 0932
:DEEStore has contracted to deliver its first EESUs to ZENN Motor Company in 2007 to use in their electric vehicles.

And we are still waiting for this magic product that they have never shown a working sample of. Best you will find is that they got thier testing equipment independly tested :( . I have been around this buisness since 2008 and I heard of this stuff then. As much as I would LOVE to see these work I'm waiting till they actualy show a working prototype before I will even start to get excited again about them.

liveforphysics
21 March 2012, 1052
The method in which a double layer carbon cap stores charge does not enable increasing voltage. They do not function by holding charge with an electro-static field like an electrolytic capacitor. They are an electro-chemical storage device that functions the same way the anode in a lithium battery works (you can actually make an ultra-cap by stacking two anode layers with a separator between them). Because of this, regardless of the break-down voltages of the materials used on each plate, you can not exceed a voltage that breaks down the electrolyte or your device will off-gas and fail rapidly. 8V is about the highest you're going to get. The concept of EEStor is intrinsically flawed. I was fooled by it for a few years before I learned how ultra-caps actually function.

Hugues
21 March 2012, 1055
the technology is involving, look at the past ten years, LiPo (and derivatives) did change a lot of things.
I'm struggling now to put enough energy in my new build to have decent acceleration and range,
but I'm also confident this same frame will see another technology inside of it, be it in a few years down the line,
I'm patient, but confident.

Allen_okc
21 March 2012, 1329
:cool: Thank You liveforphysics - im hopeful too about a technology like this... the competition in texas is a ray of light to me...

it would be nice if the battery issue was no longer a issue, maybe one day - like huges says they are doing leaps and bounds on getting to the point of creating the perfect battery solution...

JJROB80
21 March 2012, 1630
Yet once again////// Will this great creation be the 100 mpg carb of the 50's The only way the next great thing in mass travel will make it, is one of two ways. Its if big money can make bigger money orrrrrrr ppl stand up for them selves and bitch. It happened once and i hope we dont let it happen again. Wow im such a happy sole today. Sorry but this is the one thing that gets under my skin. When progress is interrupted.

liveforphysics
21 March 2012, 1801
Yet once again////// Will this great creation be the 100 mpg carb of the 50's The only way the next great thing in mass travel will make it, is one of two ways. Its if big money can make bigger money orrrrrrr ppl stand up for them selves and bitch. It happened once and i hope we dont let it happen again. Wow im such a happy sole today. Sorry but this is the one thing that gets under my skin. When progress is interrupted.

This is not progress mate. It's a scam to fool folks into thinking you can make high voltage supercaps (which I explained above why it can't work). It's a hindrance to all the folks actually trying to make functional energy storage devices.

Žoger
21 March 2012, 2059
liveforphysics - Is it possible to put ultra-capacitors in series like lithium cells to get higher voltages? I'm guessing a specialized load balancing circuit would be required, but I assumed high voltage ultra-capacitor batteries would happen one day (I'm not saying this announcement is legit, but I'm curious about the theoretical limits of ultra-caps).

liveforphysics
21 March 2012, 2115
Yes, of course. However, the energy density improvement claim of EEstor comes entirely from the voltage increase.

Allen_okc
22 March 2012, 1135
will this Graphene be the component to creating a successful ultra capacitor battery?

and what of this battery/capacitor?

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=ultracapacitor+batteries&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Dxn&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=659&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=18095800802161179109&sa=X&ei=enBrT6L3HIyMsALG2siDBg&ved=0CIQBEPMCMAA

and from sears;

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM6128910907P?sid=IDx20101019x00001 a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=SPM6128910907

Allen_okc
22 March 2012, 1144
im just investigating in getting more riding time from a 72 volt pack...

liveforphysics
22 March 2012, 1310
will this Graphene be the component to creating a successful ultra capacitor battery?

and what of this battery/capacitor?

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=ultracapacitor+batteries&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Dxn&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=659&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=18095800802161179109&sa=X&ei=enBrT6L3HIyMsALG2siDBg&ved=0CIQBEPMCMAA

and from sears;

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM6128910907P?sid=IDx20101019x00001 a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=SPM6128910907


To put it bluntly, that would be worthless sh*t for idiots. :-)


Capacitors are not going to help you with energy storage Allen.

If you want to store as much electrical energy in a small and light of a package as possible, you want cobalt-oxide based pouch cells. If you want extremely safe energy storage in a small light box, you want NMC pouch cells, and for this safety, you sacrifice some C-rate abilities.

You may want to consider just buying 2012 Zero batteries. It's a ready-made solution that is extremely durable and safe and rugged.

Allen_okc
22 March 2012, 1326
Thank You for the info liveforphysics...

right now it looks like the lithium-polymer batteries will be the next best thing... reaching 400Wh/kg...

forgive me, but i like to ask questions, no matter how stupid it sounds...

my present battery pack is still to be the headway cells, but i am looking to see if anything new in the battery tech has happened lately...

x88x
22 March 2012, 1654
You may want to consider just buying 2012 Zero batteries. It's a ready-made solution that is extremely durable and safe and rugged.
I actually considered that for a while, but the only ones I'm seeing on their site are the 2010 packs. Are they selling the 2012 pack individually yet?

ETcelerate
27 March 2012, 1451
Zenn Motor Company webcast their AGM today and they previously disclosed in their latest press release (http://www.zenncars.com/press_rel/03_12/ZMC_Reports_First_Quarter_2012_Results.pdf), that they had negotiated a "covenant from EEStor regarding a timeline for near term public disclosure of the status of its technological development certified by an independent third party." In the questions portion of the meeting, Chairman of The Board of Directors, James E. Kofman, defined the "near term" as "before the Summer of 2012". This is getting interesting.

JohnSki
27 March 2012, 1809
Liveforphysics : I was wondering what you think about the 12volt power capacitors that you can get now (like Power Acoustik PCX-30F 30-Farad Capacitor ) off of Amazon for $84.99. I think you could increase working voltage by stacking in series but I believe the formula for capacitance decreases in series. Would these translate to any real amp hours or kwatt rating. I thought maybe it would be a more effective sink for regenerative braking voltage. Do these power capacitors count as ultra capacitors?

Skeezmour
27 March 2012, 1841
Liveforphysics : I was wondering what you think about the 12volt power capacitors that you can get now (like Power Acoustik PCX-30F 30-Farad Capacitor ) off of Amazon for $84.99. I think you could increase working voltage by stacking in series but I believe the formula for capacitance decreases in series. Would these translate to any real amp hours or kwatt rating. I thought maybe it would be a more effective sink for regenerative braking voltage. Do these power capacitors count as ultra capacitors?

that cap is like .6wh or on my bike enough energy to go maybe 125' at 35 miles per hour. Plus it weighs 5.5# I can stuff a lot more range into that 5.5 pounds than 125' (say 1 60ah 3.2v calb cell= about 2.4 miles on my EXR).

x88x
27 March 2012, 1942
Liveforphysics : I was wondering what you think about the 12volt power capacitors that you can get now (like Power Acoustik PCX-30F 30-Farad Capacitor ) off of Amazon for $84.99. I think you could increase working voltage by stacking in series but I believe the formula for capacitance decreases in series. Would these translate to any real amp hours or kwatt rating. I thought maybe it would be a more effective sink for regenerative braking voltage. Do these power capacitors count as ultra capacitors?
I'm not Luke, but I can answer the maths. ;)

Caps in parallel:
C_total = C_1 + C_2 + ... + C_n

Caps in series:
C_total = 1/(1/C_1 + 1/C_2 + ... + 1/C_n)

For identical caps, works out to:
Parallel:
C_total = n*C
Series:
C_total = C/n

Power in cap:
P in Joules(Ws) = 0.5 * C * V^2

EDIT:
Oh, and...

Would these translate to any real amp hours or kwatt rating.
No.
Trust me, I went through that phase too. ;) It's tempting, but once you run the numbers, they're actually pretty awful in terms of energy density.

liveforphysics
27 March 2012, 2205
Liveforphysics : I was wondering what you think about the 12volt power capacitors that you can get now (like Power Acoustik PCX-30F 30-Farad Capacitor ) off of Amazon for $84.99. I think you could increase working voltage by stacking in series but I believe the formula for capacitance decreases in series. Would these translate to any real amp hours or kwatt rating. I thought maybe it would be a more effective sink for regenerative braking voltage. Do these power capacitors count as ultra capacitors?

Let's work the math. :-) 30F at 16vdc is 3.375kJ of energy. That's 0.93watt-hours of energy, IF you could use it all... But you sadly can't, as the voltage drops with the state of charge linearly as current is drawn from it, so soon your bike would only be able to crawl along... Fortunately, 50% of the energy of the cap is stored in the top 75% of it's voltage, and you could likely maintain function of the bike with acceptable performance through that 25% drop in pack voltage, hell, let's say a 50% drop in pack voltage you could handle (50v charged going to 25v before you couldn't get the function from the deice that you require), this would be 75% of the 0.93watt-hours, or ~0.7watt-hours.

Let's put that energy in perspective. A standard AA cell that you may put 2 of in your little LED flashlight has 3watt-hours, from a single finger-sized AA cell package (typical 2.5Ah NiMh cell). That's well over 4x more energy stored than that entire big heavy 30F capacitor.

And yes, when you see a cap with extremely high capacitance density like that, it's a double-layer carbon cap, AKA, supercap or ultracap etc.

I remember some scammers trying to do some ultra-cap bus gig with a certain module. It turned out, if they filled an ENTIRE 40ft long semi-truck container from floor to ceiling all the way from front to back, filling every cubic foot of the volume with this ultra-cap module, it still held less energy than a single gallon of diesel fuel...

ETcelerate
27 March 2012, 2250
Looks like some UCLA researchers (http://www.gizmag.com/graphene-supercapacitor/21925/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=18af13606c-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email) are making progress toward significantly increasing the energy density of supercaps.


Their highest energy storage supercapacitor was based on using the ionic liquid 1-ethyl-3-methylimidazolium tetrafluoroborate as the electrolyte. The supercapacitor exhibited a capacitance of 276 Farads per gram, and an operating voltage of 4 volts. This corresponds to an energy density of over 600 watt-hours per kilogram (2.2 lb), or about four times that of lithium-ion batteries.

lugnut
28 March 2012, 0533
.... 50% of the energy of the cap is stored in the top 75% of it's voltage,....

It is the other way round....75% energy in the top 50% voltage. You worked the example correctly.