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mcf12
21 May 2012, 0612
Hey guys,

First of all thanks to everyone for taking the extra time from building to document and share.

I've started my second build and look forward to seeing how it goes. Already have some questions piling up.

First build is here: http://www.evalbum.com/2210
Lead acid 48v etek Honda rebel chopper. Based on Jon Bidwell's el chopper build from a few years back.

This one was inspired by the RYCA kit for the Suzuki Savage Thumper. Amazing to see what they envisioned in a cruiser chassis.

Mark's got the swing arm now, so we are Enertrac for motor.
Headways for the batteries, 72 or 96v tbd, light urban (5m each way on flat New Orleans surface roads) commuting only so no more than 40ah to start. As light and lean as I can.

Props to SplinterOz and Moon and others for the Plastic fabricated mount concept for headways. I like that plan. And I know zip about milling plastic so that will be fun to learn.

Let's do this.

http://img.tapatalk.com/aefd72ba-3cb0-1a2f.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/aefd72ba-3d95-5761.jpg

jpanichella
21 May 2012, 1110
I really dig those RYCA kits!

Coninsan
21 May 2012, 1135
Have followed Ryca probably ever since they launched their CS1 and especially their new Scrambler and street tracker builds - I digg this!
And with a Enertrac this should even be an upgrade in hp and torgue for the old Savage.

Thumbs up! :D

mcf12
22 May 2012, 0945
3208

EVcycle
22 May 2012, 0948
Very cool and doable goal.....please keep the photos coming!

DRZ400
22 May 2012, 1213
Damn, when I saw "savage" I was hoping to see the belt drive retained!

mcf12
22 May 2012, 1543
It does kill me to have that sitting on the floor. If this cruiser to upright trick works, we will do the next one belt drive for sure.

mcf12
22 May 2012, 2132
ROUGH sketch of headway 15ah batt layout. ~52 cells. Not quite there. Want to stick with single layer and keep this as slim, ok slimmer, than the RYCA vision of the cafe. 40mm radius on these, right?. Cardboard CAD version tomorrow.

3209

ZoomSmith
23 May 2012, 0935
40 mm DIAMETER.

mcf12
23 May 2012, 1159
Thank you sir!

ZoomSmith
23 May 2012, 1211
I should have asked which cells you were planning on using before replying, 38120 or 40150?

Manzanita Micro has some great drawings with dimensions here:

Manzanita Micro Drawings (http://manzanitamicro.com/downloads/category/9-batteries#)

I used their specs for making my cell holders.

mcf12
23 May 2012, 1257
I should have asked which cells you were planning on using before replying, 38120 or 40150?

Manzanita Micro has some great drawings with dimensions here:

Manzanita Micro Drawings (http://manzanitamicro.com/downloads/category/9-batteries#)

I used their specs for making my cell holders.

15AH 40152. Is that the same as the 50? I don't see the 52's on the site with the detailed drawings.

Thanks for the intel Zoom.

ZoomSmith
23 May 2012, 1308
Sorry MCF, I meant 40152. I have the 40160 (now obsolete... sigh)

Maybe Skeezmour can confirm the difference in length, or have the MM guys update the drawings.

Skeezmour
23 May 2012, 1729
I sure can. Look for it perhaps this weekend. We are doing some testing on the most recent batch.

mcf12
23 May 2012, 1856
Thanks MM!

mcf12
23 May 2012, 2057
Just ordered first parts from Ryca. If I can get controller and contactor and bms under the lowered tank, I'll aim for the open rear triangle look of the custom cafe, otherwise, I'll put the covers on and use that space up.

321032113212

mcf12
24 May 2012, 2102
Thanks to Zoom, who is a strong reader, I went with 40mm DIAMETER for the 40152's and got a little better idea of what room we'll have in the Suzuki. 3p seems totally doable.

Poll:
1. I'd do 30 ah 24s2p?
2. I'd do 45 ah 24s3p?

3214

mcf12
24 May 2012, 2106
Mark's moving quick on the enertrak 602. Psyched to see where she's at. Left side disc since offset from belt's given us no room on right. Cool.3215

moon
24 May 2012, 2107
I'm not an expert but I would try to get as much energy packed into the space as you can, never know when it'll come in handy. ;)

mcf12
24 May 2012, 2149
Well, 4p works physically at least. Financially, ehhhh....?

3216

mcf12
24 May 2012, 2150
Does anyone see issues with copper on this setup?

EVcycle
25 May 2012, 0433
I use copper on most of my builds....

Krazy_Jap_BIker
25 May 2012, 0648
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/motorcycles-1/custom-made/ryca-motors-cs-1-cafe-racer-kit/index.shtml#item=238643 I found this looking for Mission motors They seem like good guys -K

mcf12
25 May 2012, 0721
They are good guys. My first set of parts (not the whole ICE kit) is shipping soon.

mcf12
25 May 2012, 0722
Thanks Ed.

Can you recommend a good supplier? Grainger?

mcf12
25 May 2012, 0732
just watched the vid. very cool to see the shop

mcf12
28 May 2012, 1912
Ed, you mentioned to Tony that brass was really hard, but I think it would look good on this build - all exposed with plexiglas or something translucent to show them off. Id like to laser cut like Tony, but don't know how hard that will be to do.

mcf12
17 June 2012, 0955
Headways are here!

mcf12
18 June 2012, 1653
So is the enertrac !

mcf12
18 June 2012, 1957
Mark packs a pre tested Kelly with the enertrac he builds. Nice.http://img.tapatalk.com/ae4576a3-ea32-008a.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/ae4576a3-ea55-023b.jpg

Crazy look to the offset swing arm from the savage.

http://img.tapatalk.com/ae4576a3-ea85-d06b.jpg

ZoomSmith
19 June 2012, 0823
Dude, that is going to rock!

mcf12
22 June 2012, 0821
Not really worth a new post, but thought I'd share the hacks I did to the Zero XU this week. 3279

Allen_okc
22 June 2012, 1006
:cool: awesome build MC - keep those photos coming, and i definitely like know how the performance is with the hub motor...

mcf12
14 July 2012, 0950
Centralized BMS - seems like mini and Orion are my top two options.

Digital - I am thinking about android tablet interface for dash, so that leaves me with Orion. Any other options?

frodus
14 July 2012, 1006
Not really for centralized. I love using torque on my elithion system. It'll work the same on the Orion.

mcf12
14 July 2012, 1347
travis, do you think i should stick with centralized on the headways? probably doing the honeycomb mounts, and would rather not have bms sticking out of side of bike. thoughts?

frodus
15 July 2012, 2104
Centralized is just fine. It boils down to personal preference. Local sensing and shunting has it's advantages. In some cases you just cannot use distributed. I have headway boards for the elithion and it really looks slick aand fits nicely. Doesn't really matter the arrangement.

mcf12
16 July 2012, 2102
Travis, that's pretty low profile indeed. Did you make those holders? Is that hi density poly plastic like what splinter oz and others are using?

frodus
17 July 2012, 0915
Travis, that's pretty low profile indeed. Did you make those holders? Is that hi density poly plastic like what splinter oz and others are using?

Yup, me and my buddy made those. The boards are pretty small. I have some extra mid boards if you want me to send you one to test fit.
The pic above is a test pack. It's machined from UHMW polyethlene. It CNC's well.

mcf12
17 July 2012, 2019
Those are cool. I think I want to go centralized but what advantages does distributed have that I should consider?

frodus
17 July 2012, 2211
Liionbms.com outlines a lot of the pros and cons of each.

craigq
02 September 2012, 0641
Just being nosey, any further progress on this build?

mcf12
17 September 2012, 2048
Alright, it is back on.

(Insert standard summer, house redo, hurricane excuses here.)

I've been working, but not on power train. I'm gunning for my rookie fork seal and aluminum polishing badges.

We have a shiny front end. Should see a rolling chassis by end of the week!

36133614

mcf12
17 September 2012, 2050
Just being nosey, any further progress on this build?

Hey Craig. Getting rolling again this week. Will get chassis rolling soon and start mocking up batteries next week. Sorry to be AWOL.

mcf12
24 September 2012, 0656
Battery box prototype. Does anyone think wood would be worth trying as final battery box ? The right plywood and enough terminal extension screw space could leave us enough material, maybe?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/24/a5e8y6et.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/24/avy6e6a7.jpg

mcf12
03 October 2012, 2055
Making some progress this week. Front end, rear end, battery box mock up all on. Ryca mods looking sweet. Enertrac motor in. This week - rough battery fit and early ideas for controller and bms mounting. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/04/egy3ereb.jpg

Offset spring (from belt drive) is cool, I think.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/04/ebery2a4.jpg

mcf12
03 October 2012, 2101
Better pix
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/04/my4yjagu.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/04/qy5e8umu.jpg

mcf12
13 October 2012, 2016
New battery layout. Hacking on the transverse layout like SplinterOz and others made me realize this frame just isn't giving me the geometry I want to make that look right.

This is starting to feel right.

Thoughts?http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/14/hamy5upy.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/14/5a2y5aqy.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/14/ysuqateg.jpg

yankee1919
16 October 2012, 0811
I like I like:rolleyes:

Hugues
16 October 2012, 0910
hi,

what are you planning to use as torque-arms ? i don't seem to see any, or at least, on one side.

mcf12
25 October 2012, 0806
hi,

what are you planning to use as torque-arms ? i don't seem to see any, or at least, on one side.

Torque arm is on the other side where disc is. I think we have what we need based on Enertrac guys' design.

mcf12
25 October 2012, 0814
New battery box CAD mockup. This is definitely the direction I like most.
Don't think the orange headway mounts will last long at 20% off vertical.

So I need to fab some custom cradles with this angle at top bottom and between the two rows of headways.

Any one have any advice on this? I could hack drill press and do myself I guess.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/25/eru8y3y2.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/25/agyva8u2.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/25/ebegu9uj.jpg

mcf12
25 October 2012, 0818
Of the three options, what would folks recommend to build top middle and bottom layer battery mounts inside this Battery box?

UHMW
HDPE
Delrin

how would you build exterior frame structure of box?

Any of the above?
Or metal?

mcf12
01 November 2012, 2200
New battery box design going to two plastic milling shops tomorrow for bid. 24s3p pack at 22.7 degrees rake to align with front down tubes. open on sides. black wrap like noah did on the kze if i have the patience.

3744

mcf12
21 December 2012, 0739
HDPE Is done!

Local fab shop milled 20degree offset battery box bases for me.
Now we have something to weld around!
Getting on that this week.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/21/asajunap.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/21/py8avute.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/21/mupubatu.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/21/upuhumy7.jpg

mcf12
30 December 2012, 1350
Battery box tacked up.

http://youtu.be/jwjOHDFuMMs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1clHQ7NKldk

mcf12
30 December 2012, 1459
On the bike.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/31/rejyje7e.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/31/etyqetu5.jpg

soyachips
30 December 2012, 1559
Wow nice work on the battery box bases. Will be watching with interest as I've had thoughts of doing a cafe racer with an Enertrac motor!

mcf12
30 December 2012, 1646
Thanks . The enertrak does make it feel down right roomy, ESP compared to your Vespa. Great build btw.

EVcycle
31 December 2012, 0707
Very Cool, you need more batteries!!! :)

The bitch part may be the connectors..... :O

mcf12
31 December 2012, 1210
Thx Ed. Just a runaround town bike for now. Agreed on wiring. Gonna be tight

mcf12
22 January 2013, 1537
Battery box done
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/23/baja2ava.jpg

SplinterOz
06 February 2013, 0410
Nice dude. Lots of room for the controller and bms still.

mcf12
02 March 2013, 1342
Eltek in the house. She's pretty, gets best seat in the house. 4135

ronny
24 March 2013, 1508
Looking so nice ! Cant wait for updates !

mcf12
03 June 2013, 1642
Fire in the hole: http://youtu.be/RAqgix5fG_0

Spaceweasel
03 June 2013, 2041
Sounds cool!

mcf12
24 July 2013, 0908
Some updates:

Battery box main circuit mocked up, waiting on andersons.
Reworked design, no 24v cells, just dc/dc. new 96/24 vicor shipped today.
Liking the placement of batts, bms, charger. Still unsure of rest of gear, probably a custom box to house contactor, relays, maybe kelly.
Really don't want to put the Orion in a box, so looking for ways to waterproof the connections.

Starting to look like a bike again.

And making some good progress on wiring. Will post updated circuit now.

mcf12
24 July 2013, 0909
Wiring Diagram is here: https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/fu7833/ecafe/

Need some help on where fuses go. Still to do: 12 v circuit, harness details.

mcf12
24 July 2013, 0910
4733

mcf12
24 July 2013, 0911
4734

mcf12
31 July 2013, 2054
BMS leads done!4747

mcf12
01 August 2013, 2147
I would love some eyes on this diagram. Thanks! Matt

4801

mcf12
01 August 2013, 2148
For easier viewing, you can get the live diagram here (https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/fu7833/ecafe/)

mcf12
14 August 2013, 2120
got the box mocked up and back on with the bms leads done. found a good spot to mount the controller, under seat pan. bench testing of total wire up progressing, thx to nice fdbk on wiring from noah and hugues

mcf12
17 August 2013, 2148
Solid progress tonight:

Eltek Orion and Kelly all online with final placement on bike.
Main HV circuit mocked w low cap wire, waiting on more welding cable for final.
Orion circuits all done (hat tip Hughes). CardboardAD of box for contactor shunt rest of wiring misc done.
4871

mcf12
19 August 2013, 2105
New wires-n-connectors-n-crap box in lexan
4887
4888

caseyLA
20 November 2013, 1953
Any progress?

mcf12
20 November 2013, 1957
Tons. Working on the 12 v circuit now and might have her rolling in two weeks. Got distracted by the zero xu mods that I need to post pix of. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/21/u7u4ymus.jpg

EV_Scoot
21 November 2013, 0333
Looking pretty snazzy. However, there doesn't appear to be any support in between those two layers. Is there?

I think that over time, the top layer will crush the terminals in between the layers. I might be over-reacting, but I used to have a 3 'C' cell torch many years ago and I thought i was all fancy having 5Ah C cells in my torch. The torch over time got bumped and knocked about and eventually the total length of the three cells got shorter because of the crushed terminals. This resulted in the torch no working as it didn't reach the terminal.

mcf12
25 November 2013, 2126
That's really good input. There is no support other than the three buss bars between each pair. That should provide some dissipation across each paralleled pair, but perhaps a good 3d print job would be some supports for that layer. That was in original plan and I had some drawn up in 3d.

Nice tip!

mcf12
25 March 2014, 2221
Just wired up the bike (lots of tweaks to go, but this thing is coming off the stand under her own power for the first time tomorrow. Pretty psyched about it.

still a ways from done, but feeling excited. couldn't do this without the help of the good ppl on the board. thx for help so far.

mcf12
27 March 2014, 0539
Two years. And we have a running bike! Pix and vid soon.

podolefsky
27 March 2014, 0842
Nice!!!

mcf12
29 March 2014, 1353
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/yry5e7u3.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/ysujy5e3.jpg

mcf12
05 May 2014, 1958
Well, she's up and running. Rode to the local upholstery guy for seat planning today!
Maiden/Frankenride was caught on film by local press in a piece we were using to get people psyched about the first mini maker faire in new orleans. we had 1200 ppl show up!

Here's the article, with a vid! (http://www.nola.com/business/index.ssf/2014/04/before_new_orleans.html)

as always, thanks to everyone here for the help. still much to do, but the grin's worth the effort to get this far.

Hugues
05 May 2014, 2101
Cool ! Congratulations !
Nice shop you've got, really. Need to find myself a place like this.

mcf12
05 May 2014, 2140
Cool ! Congratulations !
Nice shop you've got, really. Need to find myself a place like this.

thx hugues for the awesome help on this one. been fun doing similar setups and sharing notes. learned a bunch from your build.

yankee1919
08 May 2014, 0751
Hello MCF12,

Where is your helmet!? Great build and awesome video. Will you be showing your students your build?

mcf12
08 May 2014, 1625
I always wear the helmet. That was like a 50 yard no brakes test....planning on showing bike to some schools for sure.

mcf12
07 June 2014, 0632
Well, here's evidence that she can actually roll. Drive abt 5 miles to the seat shop that Carl (in pic) runs. We're doing something very different for the seat. Text ended cafe pain the pic is not it.

Pix of it installed next week.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/07/y3ederuq.jpg

SplinterOz
07 June 2014, 1524
great progress. looking forward to a ride video :)

mcf12
02 January 2015, 1704
Alrighty. Long time no post.

We are on the final build. Powder coat is done.

Battery box gets closed up tomorrow and we get moving on the chassis.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/02/0e819b228532479e60d119c09c55551d.jpg

mcf12
03 January 2015, 1146
Battery box closed up. Chassis time.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/03/cb337724827cb5f39aaedb64a6021a52.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/03/381150198604f932702754da4fbd9d90.jpg

Ben Modified
04 January 2015, 1454
Its looking great. Nice work!

mcf12
20 January 2015, 2157
96v done http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/20/212a8492f9e7d522eab454a5b90c0861.jpg

mcf12
20 January 2015, 2158
Rolling chassis again. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/20/7a4326d87731dc48bdd0ddd3f517254f.jpg

mcf12
20 January 2015, 2159
110 Charge port for Eltek http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/20/33505e84a415dcdf50a1f933dfeeb981.jpg

mcf12
29 January 2015, 2129
Test fitting final batt box. Gotta trim a little heat sink fin to fit. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/29/86c77d321542d636dbf54f20a9673426.jpg

Skahle
01 February 2015, 0021
Great looking build! Should be light and fun to ride!

mcf12
25 February 2015, 2124
Maker Faire in one week. Final tightening up....

63896390639163926393

DRZ400
03 March 2015, 0708
Looks sweet! Not much of a seat though!

mcf12
28 October 2015, 2039
New leaf pack dry fit. would you rather have connectors on your right or left? I think left in case bike falls over on stand? Thoughts? http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/28/44bb474cbe9383a6a0a196776879a9d2.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/28/aed73454dbbe57edd8b1362833a05bb5.jpg

JoeReal
30 October 2015, 0749
Looks great man! I would definitely put the terminals on the right. The motor wires are on the right, too.

mcf12
04 December 2015, 0906
Looks great man! I would definitely put the terminals on the right. The motor wires are on the right, too.

Joe! How is your build coming? What are you thinking/learning about covering the cells? Trying to think of cool ways to wrap these for weather but keep the lines of the batts/the look of the alum exposed...

JoeReal
04 December 2015, 1009
Joe! How is your build coming? What are you thinking/learning about covering the cells? Trying to think of cool ways to wrap these for weather but keep the lines of the batts/the look of the alum exposed...

Honestly, I don't plan on covering the batteries. I really love being able to see the batteries. Here are a couple of my thoughts-

1. Back plate- I am going to put a plate on the back of the pack that protects it from rocks being kicked up from the front tire. Something lite, maybe aluminum.

2. Bottom plate- the bottom module is the lowest point of the bike. So, something heavy and rust resistant.

3. New spacers- the original spacers between each module are getting rust spots. I'm thinking some sort of composite. Hopefully I can find someone to cut them to shape.

4. Terminal cover- the terminals are facing the motor and only millimeters away from it, so I need something thin to protect them. No idea what I'm going to do there or how to mount it.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

mcf12
05 December 2015, 0835
Joe, we are tracking. Same belief here in keeping uncovered. Agreed on steel or alum for plates. Will send you a sketch I made. I liked the milled plastic hugues did to cover his connectors. I'm thinking 3D print mine in translucent or clear plastic. The gel printers give the best clear results. I'm using the newer cells and do t think I've seen any rust but will keep a look out. You might consider an l shaped plate for bottom, front. Might add some rigidity and torsion instance vs alum and Stelle separate plates. That's where I am leaning. I'm also thinking about some pretty out there ideas for covering the battery holes, or doing something to cover water intrusion gaps. like maybe some leather straps like this http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/05/199d28041f2850d8b4226f255115ac19.jpg

grindel2
05 May 2016, 0832
Matt,

How is the new battery setup working for you? I have come to the same conclusion for the power system for my GS400 build. Are you nervous at all about the higher voltage on the controller/motor? As this would be my first electric conversion, I would like to hear your thoughts on a simple BMS for these Leaf cells. I am worried that I will do something stupid and ruin them. Also, what is your recommendation for a charger for these cells.

By the way, the bike is beautiful. Well done.