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View Full Version : Tesla's superchargers network , your thoughts



Hugues
25 September 2012, 1225
Interesting video from Tesla's Elon Musk, quite bold claims, I like the guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgk5-eB9oTY

Richard230
25 September 2012, 1427
The business section in my newspaper had a long article regarding Tesla's "supercharger" plans. The article was initiated by Elon Musk's video. I found several things in the article interesting.

The superchargers will deliver up to 90 kW and will only work on the Model S versions with the 200 and 300-mile range batteries. They will not work on the base 160-mile cars. The supercharger will also not work on any other EV, including the original Roadster, although they will likely be compatible with the forthcoming Model X. Six supercharging stations are already in place in California: in the towns of Gilroy, Harris Ranch, Tejon Ranch, Barstow, Folsom and LA. (That seems like an odd collection of locations to me.)

The article contained some critical comments from "some analysts" that Tesla's decision to design, build and install their dedicated charging system is "overly ambitions, given the enormous pressure the company is under to ramp up production of the Model S". The article goes on to say that "Tesla has more than 12,000 reservations for the Model S and has said it will make 5,000 Model S cars by the end of the year. But that target seems increasingly elusive, and in recent weeks Musk has backed away from that figure, focusing instead on the company's plans to produce 20,000 cars in 2013". John Gartner, a senior analyst with Pike Research is quoted as saying: "It seems curious to go to the expense of setting up your own charging network. There's already a West Coast EV highway that is being deployed along I-5. Rather than use what's already out there, Tesla seems intent on doing its own thing."

I am not sure how I feel about this plan. While it is great that a really quick charging station will be available to Model S owners, it is disturbing that the system will only be available for future Tesla vehicle owners. On the other hand, it keeps the Teslas away from other commercial charging stations, which I guess is a plus. I really would love to ride up to a charging station and recharge my batteries in 5 minutes, instead of 10 hours, but I don't think that is going to work for motorcycles unless and until super capacitors make their appearance. It would also be nice if all of the EV manufacturers would get together and come up with one charging system that will be standardized throughout the industry. Right now that doesn't seem to be happening. :confused:

electriKAT
25 September 2012, 1558
I think the 300 mile battery pack, and the supercharger network are very much about public perception right now. That is why the superchargers need to be in place before a significant number of cars are on the road. And that is why they're spending this money now. Sure, you can think of plenty of situations where you would need that battery, and the ability to charge it quickly. But for most of us, most of the time, it's not necessary. Until this is commonly accepted, Tesla needs to address all of the fears the potential EV buying public has right now. And I say they're doing a bang up job! But looking back a few years from now, I suspect the superchargers are not going to be used as much as people think.

On the compatibility issue, I have read that Tesla says the only way to charge at these rates is to match the charger with the pack. That is why they only work with the model S. Frustrating? I suppose. But I don't think it's fair to call it disturbing that they're not compatible with other brands. They're not taking anything away from others.

I too am curious how they can afford to build out the infrastructure, but I am sure it helps to have the work done by SolarCity, which Elon Musk is part owner. I love how all of that ties together. I'm considering having them install solar at my house. I won't be able to supercharge, but solar is still better than coal.

Richard230
26 September 2012, 1158
My newspaper today had two long articles about the Tesla. One on the front page and one in the business section. The front page article was about the "Superchargers" and contained quotes from Tesla spokeswoman Shanna Hendriks. She says that they plan to install their charging stations about 100 miles apart and she continues: "One of the things we want to make sure with every location is that there is something for Model S drivers, or Model S owners, to do while they're charging" The article then goes one to say: " Which is no doubt why the Gilroy station will be a few thousand steps from an In-and_Out burger. Nothing like scarfing down a double-double and an order of animal fries while your S slurps down a few kilowatts. It's how a charging station becomes a tourist destination." This comment refers to the Gilroy station which is located in a major "outlet" shopping center just off Highway 101.

Meanwhile, the article in the business section says that Tesla will deliver fewer Model S cars this year than they had planned. Tesla had previously vowed to make 5,000 cars by the end of the year, but in its latest filing with the SEC, says that it is "four to five weeks behind our previously announced delivery goals". This is due to delivery delays by suppliers and the need to continue to train employees. As of September 23, Tesla had manufactured 255 cars and delivered 132 to customers. It now expects to deliver 200 to 225 cars in the third quarter and 2,500 to 3,000 cars in the fourth quarter of the year.

Tesla is asking the DOE to approve the sale of an additional 4.3 million shares of stock as it needs at least $128 million to "shore up its balance sheet".

Hugues
26 September 2012, 1232
good thoughts,

it's true at first one might say, how dumb to make the charger compatible only with their model S,

but on the other hand, maybe we need bold implementation like this to kick start the thing and get the ball rolling.

The guy has courage, it's undeniable !

Harold in CR
26 September 2012, 1355
He also said they were feeding back into the grid, so, when not charging cars they are getting back credits or cash for generation ? I'm just interested in knowing how they can charge cars at late night ?? Maybe grad charge and pay back with Solar ??

This guy has great plans and seems to be able to pull it off. He has contracts worth billions for space flights with the Govt.

electriKAT
26 September 2012, 1614
Harold - is "grad charge" a typo? Did you mean "grid charge"? If so, then yes. Like any solar array, it's grid tied. You're not using the exact amount that the array is producing at any point in time. But when you compare the amount produced to the amount used per month or per year, the array is supposed to produce more than the cars will use.

Harold in CR
26 September 2012, 1729
Yes, Typo. I hate this black background. Can't see what I type out.

ZoomSmith
26 September 2012, 1925
Harold,
Scroll to the bottom left of the page and select a different style.
-z

Harold in CR
27 September 2012, 0536
Ahhh, Thanks, Z :cool:

Warren
27 September 2012, 0708
This is all about as interesting and relevant to my life as what the queen eats at tea time. The idea of a one per center getting a huge federal loan to build these, and other one per centers getting a $7500 federal tax break for these toys, all from a Democratic president, makes me want to puck. Yeah, I know. Musk says that someday all this gee whiz tech will trickle down to us peons in the form of a one and a half ton car that will require a 24 kWh pack that he will be glad to lease to us. Oh wait, Renault-Nissan is already doing that. And it is too damned expensive.

It amazes me that a group of college students could build a really sensible electric vehicle four years ago, and drive it around the world, and we are still waiting for an OEM to do it.

http://teamtrev.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/lessons.pdf

The automobile is a really stupid device. I was hoping, with the poor performance of batteries, they would feel the necessity to create something truly new. I was hoping for an Ipad, but instead we went from the manual typewriter to an electric typewriter.

Richard230
27 September 2012, 0724
What I would like to see is a standardized commercial charging system that would accommodated every EV and every voltage used in EV's. My concern is that there are going to be several non-compatible systems (cassette vs. 8-track) on the market and you will have to know which one will work on your vehicle when you are down on juice and finally locate a charging station - to say nothing of which one is still working and how much you are going to be charged for refueling. Can you imagine what it would be like if every oil company brand used a different type of nozzle to pump gas that would only work on specific brands of vehicles? In my opinion what the charging industry needs to do is to follow in the 110-year old footsteps of gas companies when it comes to dispensing electrons. They all need to get together and work this out before EV owners start going nuts.

electriKAT
27 September 2012, 0818
Richard, I agree with your sentiments. And I think that could happen eventually. But the industry isn't mature enough for that yet. Just a few years ago, the standard was a 110V wall outlet. They've got to start somewhere, and I think progress has been made. With any new technology, there are competing standards, and eventually, hopefully, one wins. Charging and balancing battery packs of different sizes and chemistries is much different from pouring liquid into a tank.

Nuts & Volts
27 September 2012, 0916
This is all about as interesting and relevant to my life as what the queen eats at tea time. The idea of a one per center getting a huge federal loan to build these, and other one per centers getting a $7500 federal tax break for these toys, all from a Democratic president, makes me want to puck. Yeah, I know. Musk says that someday all this gee whiz tech will trickle down to us peons in the form of a one and a half ton car that will require a 24 kWh pack that he will be glad to lease to us. Oh wait, Renault-Nissan is already doing that. And it is too damned expensive.

It amazes me that a group of college students could build a really sensible electric vehicle four years ago, and drive it around the world, and we are still waiting for an OEM to do it.

http://teamtrev.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/lessons.pdf

The automobile is a really stupid device. I was hoping, with the poor performance of batteries, they would feel the necessity to create something truly new. I was hoping for an Ipad, but instead we went from the manual typewriter to an electric typewriter.

That's a lot hating goin on there. Not sure how my mother would ever have gotten me to all my baseball games and soccer practices with that car... The word sensible doesn't really come to mind sorry. There is not a single solution for all commuting/driving, I (single, college student) get around fine on an electric motorcycle. A mother of 4 would not even be able to get the groceries in that car or a motorcycle.

Anyways these high power chargers are great. I was at Tesla when they were making a prototype. The way they were designing it was very cost effective and made a lot of sense. I imagine the future smaller Tesla models will be able to get even more miles in less time because they have a smaller battery and go the same distance.

Kinda sucks they only work with Tesla's but business is business. Also no other EV out there can handle a 90kW charge

Warren
27 September 2012, 0951
"That's a lot hating goin on there. Not sure how my mother would ever have gotten me to all my baseball games and soccer practices with that car... The word sensible doesn't really come to mind sorry. There is not a single solution for all commuting/driving, I (single, college student) get around fine on an electric motorcycle. A mother of 4 would not even be able to get the groceries in that car or a motorcycle."

Yeah. I know...class warfare. That war has already been fought and I lost.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/09/21/fed-action-may-widen-wealth-gap/

As for the rest of this. I am old enough to remember when it was not the norm for a mother of 4 (where do babies come from?) to load them all up in a bus and drive them half way across the county for play dates. Your grandchildren certainly won't be doing that.

liveforphysics
27 September 2012, 1025
I think it's a great step in the right direction. I love the tiny compact plug as well.

I just wish they would sell the charge sockets and control protocol information to the DIY group so non-tesla vehicles could charge from them as well. :-)

Nuts & Volts
27 September 2012, 1044
I think it's a great step in the right direction. I love the tiny compact plug as well.

I just wish they would sell the charge sockets and control protocol information to the DIY group so non-tesla vehicles could charge from them as well. :-)

My pack would charge in 5mins @ 90kW. haha well that's only if it doesnt melt at 10C charge

podolefsky
27 September 2012, 2149
This is all about as interesting and relevant to my life as what the queen eats at tea time. The idea of a one per center getting a huge federal loan to build these, and other one per centers getting a $7500 federal tax break for these toys, all from a Democratic president, makes me want to puck.


Um...you do realize that a federal loan brings in revenue through interest, right? And the loan is part of an $8 billion DOE program that was started in 2007 under Bush.

I'm no 1 per center, but I got a $5000 state tax credit for my motorcycle build.

Anyway...I mean, Elon Musk started space-X, Tesla, and Paypal...he's not the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

teddillard
28 September 2012, 0229
Yep. I think this is totally awesome. It shows that electric cars can be recharged in a short time, within the "pain threshold" of a normal long-distance trip. End of story.

I think Tesla is awesome as well. I honestly don't like the cars much, and probably would never buy one, but you know what? People have been bitching about them for years now, "nay-saying" (my favorite word - not), and guess what? They've successfully released not one, but two cars, have a nationwide network of showrooms, and are, with this charging station, slamming a few anti-electric car myths in the head with one fell swoop. Don't think it's going to be a decade before this kind of charging station is commonplace. This one step is going to make them pop up everywhere, just as the "typical" plug in station - something fairly exotic in these parts anyway, up until a year ago or so - is appearing everywhere.

Yeah, the future may not look like how you wanted it to look, but this is a very very cool thing, and a glove tossed at the feet of everyone who said it can't be done.

Hugues
28 September 2012, 0429
...and these charging stations inject solar electricity into the grid while nobody is using them.

So not just Model S owners benefit from them finally.

Warren
28 September 2012, 0917
"you do realize that a federal loan brings in revenue through interest, right? And the loan is part of an $8 billion DOE program that was started in 2007 under Bush....he's not the CEO of Goldman Sachs"

Of course this was started under Bush, as was the bankster takeover. But it has all continued under Obama. I voted for the guy, and will again this November. I understand that he has to work with the electorate he has, but I was hoping for a little more of a reality check from him.

We continue to look to priests (economists) using numerology to tell us we can continue our binge. I prefer physics.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/

Politicians are a very good at following the peoples lead. That is how they get elected. And they learned very quickly, from the Carter loss, that people don't like sacrifice.

podolefsky
28 September 2012, 1011
Well, my wife is an economist (specializing in PV incentives and uptake). I'm a physicist. I can tell you how much power a panel will give you, the efficiency, yada yada. She's the one that can tell you which gov't programs will help spur growth and innovation in the industry.

Anyway, I'm with Ted. This is awesome. A company that is actually making vehicles that people want to buy...and building the infrastructure for them. It might still be a niche product, but it's got to start somewhere.

Warren
28 September 2012, 1309
"my wife is an economist...I'm a physicist.'

Surely, between the two of you, you can tell us how to have our cake, and eat it too. :-)

teddillard
28 September 2012, 1346
um.. yeah. Gettin' pretty rude. How 'bout we keep the politics out of it and talk about the Tesla Supercharger, huhplz?

Warren
28 September 2012, 2112
"How 'bout we keep the politics out of it and talk about the Tesla Supercharger"

Sure. Actually, my cake reference was about resource depletion in a closed system...physics. Check out that physicist's link I posted. Lots there relating to EV's, and electricity generation.

podolefsky
28 September 2012, 2153
"How 'bout we keep the politics out of it and talk about the Tesla Supercharger"

Sure. Actually, my cake reference was about resource depletion in a closed system...physics. Check out that physicist's link I posted. Lots there relating to EV's, and electricity generation.

Sticking to physics, and not politics, it's not really a closed system. For all intents and purposes, solar and wind power are unlimited resources. That's part of why the Tesla chargers are so cool.

Just as an aside, even fossil fuels, ultimately, are solar power. All that energy came from the sun...it just took a lot longer to collect than it took us to use it.

Come to think of it, about the only energy sources that don't originate at the sun are nuclear and geothermal.

Warren
28 September 2012, 2224
"For all intents and purposes, solar and wind power are unlimited resources."

The energy coming in is unlimited. All of the materials we mine, and convert to our purposes are finite, if you don't count the occasional meteor.

Noah, I would love it if you would read the posts on this blog, and give us your critique.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/

Maybe starting with this one.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/04/economist-meets-physicist/

I have read everything on this blog, and several others. They all seem to fit with my, admittedly layman's, understanding of physics. Unlike the writings of Julian Simon. :-)

podolefsky
28 September 2012, 2238
Some info: the two EV charging standards right now are J1772 and CHAdeMO. J1772, right now, only supports up to 240 VAC at 80A. You need and onboard charger that can handle that to make use of the full 19kW. There are plans for a 90kW J1772 DC system, but its not settled yet, and its a different plug so it wouldn't work with existing EVs.

CHAdeMO is a DC system that will do 68kW. I don't think there are very many of them out there, at least in The US.

Right now, the Tesla charges are the only 90kW systems out there, and they're DC. Your EV has to be set up for DC charging, and handle 90kW. Even the older Roadsters can't use it, but future ones will.

So basically, Tesla isn't adhering to other standards because they don't exist (yet). They've said that as other companies develop the technology to use this level of DC charging, they may share the stations. Likely, they're trying to establish a new 90kW standard.

podolefsky
28 September 2012, 2312
"For all intents and purposes, solar and wind power are unlimited resources."

The energy coming in is unlimited. All of the materials we mine, and convert to our purposes are finite, if you don't count the occasional meteor.

Noah, I would love it if you would read the posts on this blog, and give us your critique.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/

Maybe starting with this one.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/04/economist-meets-physicist/

I have read everything on this blog, and several others. They all seem to fit with my, admittedly layman's, understanding of physics. Unlike the writings of Julian Simon. :-)

Sure, be happy to...in another thread.

Real quick...the limits to growth issue is thorny because physicists and economists mean different things by "growth". Serious economists do realize there are limits...I think its just one of those fun philosophical arguments to have.

Warren
29 September 2012, 0639
"Sure, be happy to...in another thread."

I will keep an eye out for your thread.

"physicists and economists mean different things by "growth"

Unless you are talking about an economy that consists of us sitting around picking each others fleas, they are the same. "Adding value" in an economy that most people would recognize, consists of converting raw materials using energy.

"Serious economists do realize there are limits"

Unless they are working for an NGO, they won't admit it in public. That would be like a preacher saying there is no evidence for god.

"I think its just one of those fun philosophical arguments to have."

Except for string theory, I can't remember the last time I heard two physicists having a philosophical argument about the laws of physics. :-)

Richard230
29 September 2012, 0713
What I wonder about is how long does it take to "recharge" the charger with solar power after each use by a Tesla S? My guess is that most of the power comes from the grid and just a small percentage from solar power.

Hugues
29 September 2012, 0941
What I wonder about is how long does it take to "recharge" the charger with solar power after each use by a Tesla S? My guess is that most of the power comes from the grid and just a small percentage from solar power.
If I'm not mistaken, the supercharger is connected to the grid at all times. And the solar production goes straight to the grid as well.

What would be nice to know is how many full charge equivalent you get from a full sunny day. It all depends on the surface installed of course.

podolefsky
29 September 2012, 1111
"Sure, be happy to...in another thread."

I will keep an eye out for your thread.

"physicists and economists mean different things by "growth"

Unless you are talking about an economy that consists of us sitting around picking each others fleas, they are the same. "Adding value" in an economy that most people would recognize, consists of converting raw materials using energy.

"Serious economists do realize there are limits"

Unless they are working for an NGO, they won't admit it in public. That would be like a preacher saying there is no evidence for god.

"I think its just one of those fun philosophical arguments to have."

Except for string theory, I can't remember the last time I heard two physicists having a philosophical argument about the laws of physics. :-)

The issues you raise are pretty interesting and complex - I could write a book in response (plenty of people have).

I'm not sure if these are really appropriate for elmoto. Maybe...I mean, folks are probably interested. If you want to start a thread and link to the pages you have, I'll jump on it. Just a warning - I'll probably end up using the word "epistemology".

teddillard
29 September 2012, 1314
Today when I visited the new Tesla store in Natick, MA, it seemed like the Superchargers were a huge deal... everybody was talking about them, and everybody was really excited about the implications. It's huge, and the way the launch was handled was as brilliant as the technology that it uses.

Richard230
29 September 2012, 1442
I visited my BMW motorcycle dealer today and even the parts guy was talking about the "superchargers". That really surprised me.

picaroon
29 September 2012, 1549
They must surely be the only car manufacturer offering free fuel for the life of their cars. I would expect that they have planned for the superchargers to pay for themselves by feeding back into the grid, so it's essentially a free and brilliant advertising structure to place outside of a shopping mall with thousands of eyes peering at it everyday.
It will make it very difficult for another car company to compete.
It may take 30mins to get a full charge, but not every car driver fills their tank full with fuel every time and they are able to, so perhaps they will just be used as a quick 10 min charge for some people anyway and no more of an inconvenience to what is normal.

teddillard
30 September 2012, 0322
It will make it very difficult for another car company to compete.

Actually, I don't think so. My suspicion is that the Big Boys are looking pretty hard at this experiment, and, as we've seen before, if it looks like it's working to help sell cars, they'll be all over it. They could buy it or license it from Tesla, which may be Tesla's plan, or simply build a version based on the concept. Hell I could design it, I think, the technology is that simple. It's just throwing massive horsepower at a basic charging station (along with some slick packaging).

Nissan dealers are, even now, offering rental cars to Leaf customers for those weekend trips. Good, creative approaches to driving sales through addressing customer concerns. If an ultra-fast charging network drives more sales, it's a no-brainer for companies with huge resources. Forgive me for being lazy, but haven't a few manufacturers already endorsed several of the charging station companies?

Warren
30 September 2012, 0721
Noah,

"If you want to start a thread and link to the pages you have, I'll jump on it.'

Probably better if you respond over on his blog. Then I can read his responses to you.

"Just a warning - I'll probably end up using the word "epistemology"."

If you are going to claim some sort of non-overlapping magisteria for physics and economics, save your breathe. We all did a lot of navel gazing in high school...How do we know what is real? We could be living in the Matrix, or our universe could be an atom in the Buddha's left nostril. Not really interested in that discussion. Don't get stoned anymore. :-)

Warren
30 September 2012, 0739
"They must surely be the only car manufacturer offering free fuel for the life of their cars."

Whoa! I missed that part. That is brilliant marketing. Even if a Tesla driver charges 80% of the 85 kWh pack, that is 68 kWh. At twenty cents a kWh, that would only be $13.60 worth of electricity. If they don't drop $50 for croissants and lattes, I'll be amazed.

teddillard
30 September 2012, 1125
Noah,

"If you want to start a thread and link to the pages you have, I'll jump on it.'

Probably better if you respond over on his blog. Then I can read his responses to you.

"Just a warning - I'll probably end up using the word "epistemology"."

If you are going to claim some sort of non-overlapping magisteria for physics and economics, save your breathe. We all did a lot of navel gazing in high school...How do we know what is real? We could be living in the Matrix, or our universe could be an atom in the Buddha's left nostril. Not really interested in that discussion. Don't get stoned anymore. :-)


"They must surely be the only car manufacturer offering free fuel for the life of their cars."

Whoa! I missed that part. That is brilliant marketing. Even if a Tesla driver charges 80% of the 85 kWh pack, that is 68 kWh. At twenty cents a kWh, that would only be $13.60 worth of electricity. If they don't drop $50 for croissants and lattes, I'll be amazed.

A) It's spelled "breath".

B) You constantly ignore the etiquette of staying on-topic, rather than rudely hi-jacking threads to go off on your private crusades. You, and others here may find it fascinating. I, for one, do not. Noah's point was that your comments are off-topic, and you should start your own thread about whatever the hell it is you're talking about. You've stated quite clearly you're not interested in the subject, fine, leave it for people who are, please.

I, also speaking only for myself, am quite interested in the group's opinions on the Tesla Supercharger, including yours, as long as that is, in fact, what you're talking about. I'm even mildly interested in your disenfranchisement with the EV community, as it moves into the mainstream, and would love to read some actual intelligent opinion about that subject. I happen to think it's become more commonplace as EVs get more mainstream. I'd love to read that in it's own thread.

C) I don't give a rat's ass about your political opinions, and, considering the breadth of talent and backgrounds on this forum, including Physicists, Economists, Engineers, Fabricators, Industrial Designers, and yes, Philosophers, Writers and Photographers, I'd REALLY appreciate you keeping your contempt for these disciplines to yourself. If you want to openly insult members, find another forum.

As someone who holds a degree that authorizes me to use words like "epistemology", "ontology", and others like them, (Being and Nothingness, A Phenomenological Ontology is a great read, I'd suggest you pick it up one day...) and as one who understands that Physics, Mathematics and every other study of our universe arose out of what was once known as Philosophy (literally, the love of knowledge, or wisdom) and that Particle Physics is probably the highest point in the evolution of Man's attempts to comprehend our place in the Universe, I'd respectfully suggest that those who can comprehend what you apparently cannot are not necessarily stoned. Speaking only for myself, of course.

D) Oh, yeah. There's a button at the bottom of the post that says "Reply With Quote", but I suspect you don't use it because it's a defamation of your personal style and liberty. It does, however, make it easier for people to refer to the original statement and context. But, it remains, there, just so you know.

That is all. (...and likely quite enough.)

Warren
30 September 2012, 1136
.

chef
01 October 2012, 1239
While I'm not a fan of proprietary solutions, there is no standard currently spec'd for 90kW. CHAdeMO goes up to 62.5kW and I'm guessing Tesla isn't confident that will become the standard outside of Japan. And so in the absence of a mature industry with well-established standards, companies each try to push their own as the defacto standard. What irks me about Tesla's decision is that they didn't include a J1772 port. In order to use the widespread US standard, Model S owners need to use an adapter cord. It wouldn't surprise me if those were commonly stolen. As I'm unlikely to ever be able to own a Model S/X, that'll be someone else's problem to deal with.

Things here haven't changed much, including Ted's unabated whippings :P

ZoomSmith
01 October 2012, 1256
Thanks for getting us back on topic Chef!

Richard230
01 October 2012, 1422
Here is a Wired Opinion regarding the Tesla Supercharger that goes into some detail about this idea. This opinion mirrors in much more detail what was in the back of my mind when I posted my thoughts about the potential disadvantages of having different types of charging systems. I think the opinions expressed on this thread (regarding the Supercharger) take a more middle-of-the-road approach than Wired's Charging Wars comments, but it is still worth reading, especially if you want to get worked up a bit. Note that the author, Chelsea Sexton and her husband, who used to work at Tesla until last June, both have business connections with a number of major auto manufacturers.

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2012/09/ev-plug-wars/

I kind of like this quote from the article: "Automakers with no real interest in making plug-in vehicles far outnumber the few who do, and that’s the biggest threat to EV deployment today. Not everyone will want a Leaf or a Volt, or be able to afford a Model S, even if Tesla can get production up to speed. The irony is that most of the automakers in the alliance balking at the charger that serves EV drivers today don’t even have concrete plans for a volume EV program that would use the very connector they’re pushing in the first place."