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MsHap
10 December 2012, 0613
Hi I am new to the electric vehicle thing. I stated converting one of my bikes Jello a month ago.

I have some Kelly controller problems. I would love some help with error codes
Im getting 2.4 for throttle but i was not getting that one vefore the motor went in.
im also getting a motor over temp error but i do not have a thermo resistor installed or wired?

Allen_okc
10 December 2012, 0800
what model is your Kelley controller - you can also download the controller error codes off their site - you may also email them and ask for their help...

they are really good about helping...

http://kellycontroller.com/support.php for the download of users manual...

and for the contact info... http://kellycontroller.com/contact_us.php

so do you have any photos of your project, and welcome to the forum...

MsHap
10 December 2012, 0814
what model is your Kelley controller - you can also download the controller error codes off their site - you may also email them and ask for their help...

they are really good about helping...

http://kellycontroller.com/support.php for the download of users manual...

and for the contact info... http://kellycontroller.com/contact_us.php

so do you have any photos of your project, and welcome to the forum...

Hi. Its kdz I have ben talking to them bt the èrrors don't make sense

I added a thread with pictures in the forum bt its nt showin up? The title is "Jello"

MsHap
10 December 2012, 0815
Its a kdz
I have ben emailing with them bt the error codes. Don't make. Sense

I made a thread with pictures titled "Jello" bt its nt showin up

I have the whole thing on facebook. too

MsHap
10 December 2012, 1151
I fixed it :)
3928

Allen_okc
10 December 2012, 1218
its hard to say whats up with your controller, did you plug your controller into a computer to see what the settings are set at???

MsHap
10 December 2012, 1530
I fixed it :)
3928

i got it working :) I have a video but its on facebook

Skeezmour
10 December 2012, 1655
Link to it and make sure it is public.

MsHap
10 December 2012, 1704
what in the what nw?

MsHap
10 December 2012, 1705
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151274238453756

Skeezmour
10 December 2012, 1757
Yep you have not changed the permission on it to public. We can't see it.

MsHap
10 December 2012, 1809
try reloading?

Skeezmour
10 December 2012, 1927
Nice. What was the problem?

Allen_okc
11 December 2012, 0621
:cool: i just love the sound of a electric motor and chain working - Congratulations on getting it fixed and for building a EV motorcycle, now you can have that silly EV grin, but watch out, its addicting...

So did you find out what the problem was???

MsHap
11 December 2012, 0634
yeah i fixed it. i had a wire come loose and ground the j2 pin 4

My ignition on all my motorcycles is keyless (RFID) so the signal is 12v the contactor will nt close with the 12v so im gunna add another relay that will close with 12 and carry 48v to the contactor and the power to the controller. do you see any problem with that? like a 12v relay is 12v 30a so like 7a at 48 should still b ok and im only lookin for like 2a

Only other problem for today is the front wheel travel. i have to make sure it does nt touch the front lower battery. or i have to rework my mount.

i hate the colour on this forum im typin black letters on a grey box i hav no idea wat it looks like till i post

MsHap
11 December 2012, 0636
ok changed the forum skin

Allen_okc
11 December 2012, 0706
yes using a relay is one way, ive used a heavy duty 12vdc relay to control a 48 volt circuit before to the pos neg pins on the contacor.

another way would be just add two on/off switches for the contacter - one hidden for security, the other on the handle bar for emergency shut down - the reason is i have had the controller blow a mosfet before and ended up with a run away motor, which is very bad, cause they will go into full throttle and in the middle of traffic you will want a way to shut it down quickly...

the other EV members here may have other solutions...

MsHap
11 December 2012, 0720
the run/stop on all my motorcycles controls power to my rfid so it functions just like a run/stop should. The security is that noone cn start my bikes but me, nt that i hide a switch well?

Already put the relay in, it does seam fine.

Allen_okc
11 December 2012, 0740
:cool: kewl...

do you have a emergency kill switch on the handle bar???

you can use a single motorcycle headlight switch - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Headlight-Spot-Fog-Light-Handlebar-Switch-Motorcycle-Motorbike-Project-/180925077527?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2a1ff99817

MsHap
11 December 2012, 0745
yes the run/stop switch kills all power just like a run/stop switch should :)

Allen_okc
11 December 2012, 0755
:D:D:D Kewl...

MsHap
11 December 2012, 0803
What kind of range do you think i can get with the batteries I have?
I have 4 119ah 12v marine batteries. and the Mars ME0909 motor running at 48v

Allen_okc
11 December 2012, 0829
maybe 30 miles, more or less - it varies, rider weight, motorcycle weight, hills or flat land, cold or hot weather...

so far im not sure how far mine will go with the LiFePo4 cells, i want to set it up with AGM batteries for this winter riding, but this cold front that came in definitely shorten my travel distance...

you'll just have to test ride the bike and get a feel for how far it will go...

MsHap
11 December 2012, 0830
ok shes like 350lbs and im 142 with gear. im gunna start riding her today if everything seams ok and see whats up.

I have a few things to do to her and then im thinking of a capacitor bank. like 2600F

Skeezmour
11 December 2012, 0848
Here is a good thread about it.

http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?1131-Ultracaps

at this point most agree just adding more battery is much better.

MsHap
11 December 2012, 0909
yeah the caps i have are 2600F so much bigger then what seams to b discussed in that thread and i didnt have to pay, so I just need bleed resistors and some aluminum to use and .... space on the bike?

Allen_okc
11 December 2012, 0909
im with Christine - i believe in the ultra capacitor system in the manner that Noah explains, i just havent got to that point yet of experimenting with them to say its better or not...

but if MIT ever comes up the answer, then it will change the way we use batteries...

Christine if you have the opportunity to experiment with the capacitors, please oh please keep us informed on her performance, win loose or draw...

ive kick that ideal around many a time before too, and would really like to give it a try myself!!!

the extra battery thing requires more chargers/charging where the ultra capacitor wouldnt...

MsHap
11 December 2012, 0925
once i have Jello all set I will try it. I have to get a real charger for her right nw. and I wnt to replace her tail and seat with this carbon fibre one and i have to finish the guages. i need to cut the front subframe alot.

Allen_okc
11 December 2012, 0932
:cool: Kewl - it sounds like you got a good handle on it...

and Thank You for thinking outside of the box...

MsHap
11 December 2012, 0934
not at all. i never even thought about ev till 30days ago. i am way over my head lol

Allen_okc
11 December 2012, 0942
:o we've all been there, im still over my head on this stuff, but when i ride my EV Chopper, it makes me glad i tried...

Skeezmour
11 December 2012, 1032
Well I would encourage you to read it anyways. I think you will find that free or not the performance benefit will be minimal at best. Although if using saggy lead then you may get more performance benefit from it.

And just FYI those 1# caps store the total energy (if you can use down to 0v) of a whooping 2.6wh. I think you would find that adding 12v of pack voltage would have a large effect on your performance (drop gearing and spin faster).

Either way let us know how it turns out.

MsHap
11 December 2012, 1159
i read that thread. it was not as informative as other capacitor threads i have read but it was ... nice?

i dont have anymaore room for batteries and as i said they were free. i cnt believe you think its not even worth 45min of my time to wire them up?

Yes exactly im using lead acid.

which i guess doint come charged? i just made it less then a mile lol
I have to trim the front fender too.

Skeezmour
11 December 2012, 1347
Just speaking from experience. I just try and save people some pain. Sometimes we just have to stick our hands in the fire to make sure its hot ;)

I just see lots of people thinking that the caps are going to make the vehicle have more range/power/cycle life and the reality is better batteries would have been the better choice in 99.9% of the applications.

But hey if you have them for free and some time heck ya give it a shot. Let us know how it works out. The more data the better.

furyphoto
11 December 2012, 1924
I have been thinking about an RFID ignition for my build. I would be interested to know how yours is set up, can you share some details?

MsHap
12 December 2012, 0547
Sure :) all my bikes, my house the computers my safe are all rfid :)

i will describe using an example rfid from ebay so i will post a link after i find one but i need to make coffee.

ok rfid 3 wires 12v ground and switched 12v(momentary)
12v possitive battery to the run/stop switch, returning wire from run/stop to positive to 12v rfid and lets call it "85" on a relay "86" goes to vehicle ground along with ground on the rfid
now if its a fuel motocycle the rest is easy, "30" and "87" r the wires that would have gone to the run/stop and then the downstream side of that circuit will get a diode and meet with the rfid switched power also with a diode and together will jump the "85" pin on the main power relay if u wnt to keep the key too.

on the electric it was sllightly different.
hold on coffee time

MsHap
12 December 2012, 0556
on Jello i just ran switched 12v to pin "30" of what would b the run/stop and pin "87" was dioded joining rfid switched power dioded goin to another relay "85" that was my "main" relay "86" ground then "30" main fuse "87" 12v for all

the thing that is making this complicated is that the rfid units r switches they dont like to stay on and even the ones that do umm dont so its better to use it to charge the system then let the system power itself as long as u hav a way to shut it bak down. does that make sense?
I have ben using rfid for over 10 years.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RFID-Reader-transponder-key-fob-security-/370631823937

Hugues
12 December 2012, 1028
... does that make sense?
...

:confused:
how about a good old wiring diagram ?
:rolleyes:

MsHap
12 December 2012, 1036
I cn draw one I guess?

So Jello went. Around the block twice bt she was a real dog at the end

MsHap
18 December 2012, 0805
Has anyone ever made something like this?
http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?29465-Plans-for-a-2-speed-dog-clutch-gearbox

Square Wave
18 December 2012, 0827
Now you've done it!

MsHap
18 December 2012, 0844
i was just thinking without chains use gears and use the motor shaft directly on the first set of gears.

___
18 December 2012, 1018
I'm not sure if this is quite what you're looking for, but there's his guy on evalbum who put a simple gearbox on his DRZ because the series wound motor he's using is too wide for the bike. He still uses a chain to connect it to the rear wheel, though.

http://www.evalbum.com/3020

Allen_okc
18 December 2012, 1151
Has anyone ever made something like this?
http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?29465-Plans-for-a-2-speed-dog-clutch-gearbox

Aussie Jester did one...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=20588&hilit=two+speed+transmission&start=150

MsHap
18 December 2012, 1552
ok so Jello doesnt have much power. Like she is ok but no torque at all.
So allen.okc just asked about the primary wire. I have really expensive 4ga the 99.9 oxygen free crap, because i bought it to upgrade the ducati's charging/starting system last year.
So can that carry 300a ? or should I go to advance auto and get 2ga nw?

Hugues
18 December 2012, 1946
Hi

You can play with this calculator to estimate the voltage drop in your cables :
http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html?material=copper&wiresize=0.8152&voltage=100&phase=dc&noofconductor=1&distance=1&distanceunit=feet&amperes=300&x=0&y=0

Seems the wire size is not the source of your problem, but they probably get hot after a while. I was recommended to use 00 awg for my build, I'll have about 650 amps

Allen_okc
19 December 2012, 0637
i talked with MSHAP yesterday - i suggest the 2 gauge, my drag scooter and chopper both use the 2 gauge wire and both bikes, the wires barely got warm... the scooter 48volt capable of 400 amps and the chopper 250 amps...

but the problem im sure of, is the gear ratio - shes running 13 tooth on the motor and 49 tooth on the rear sprocket... going to the 11 tooth on the motor, which is the same on the drag bike will give her bike the take off shes looking for, correct me if im wrong...

Allen_okc
19 December 2012, 0639
:cool: my chopper is running 5:1 ratio its awesome...

12tooth on motor
60 tooth rear sprocket

MsHap
19 December 2012, 0658
my problem with the gear ratio is that if the motor has no power it doesnt matter and thats the way it feels.

I checked the throttle just for fun and i got these readings?
the throttle shows 4.17v wen its resting and 2.36v at full twist.

Allen_okc
19 December 2012, 0705
my problem with the gear ratio is that if the motor has no power it doesnt matter and thats the way it feels.

I checked the throttle just for fun and i got these readings?
the throttle shows 4.17v wen its resting and 2.36v at full twist.

need someone here to answer this question, i never checked my throttle to see what its readings are...

Hugues
19 December 2012, 0720
I'm into throttle nowadays,

If your throttle has only one hall sensor or pot (most of them do) then your reading is wrong, it should show 0 or maybe 0.9 max at rest and closer to 5v when fully open. But your reading would mean full speed at rest, which is not doing apparently.

Maybe your controller has a protection mode and as it sees an abnormal value when starting, it goes in limp mode. Just my hypothesis .

In any case, be very careful, put your bike on a stand with rear wheel up and check your throttle.

MsHap
19 December 2012, 0800
i have 3 wires. and it is allegedly a 5v throttle. i have the controller set for 5v throttle.
black i assumed was ground, red 5v and like green wiper?

i measured inbetween the red and green

ARC EV Racing
19 December 2012, 0922
So it sounds like you're measuring the throttle output with 5v as the reference rather than 0v. That would suggest 0.83v when referenced to ground which sounds feasible.

Still doesn't sound like you're getting full throttle though.

ARC EV Racing
19 December 2012, 0926
:cool: my chopper is running 5:1 ratio its awesome...

12tooth on motor
60 tooth rear sprocket
5:1 sounds good btw

MsHap
19 December 2012, 0935
ok to review then my connections seam ok?

So wat do i do about not getting full throttle?

MsHap
19 December 2012, 0942
right so .8-4.35v
thank you, im stupid
anyway, cn i fix the lack of 5v with a kelly controller setting?

ARC EV Racing
19 December 2012, 0944
I think it's worth measuring again with 0v as reference to confirm the output. Some throttles do give 5v at rest but the controller would need to be configured for that.

Maybe also measure between 0v and 5v and if possible check throttle output without the signal connected to the controller.

I once saw some Kelly software which let you read the raw voltage and adc input for the throttle. That would help in testing the full throttle theory but I'm not sure how you get it.

As Hugues said regarding safety while testing.

Sent from my AZ210A using Tapatalk 2

MsHap
19 December 2012, 1118
i rechecked considering what u said and those were the readings above. ".8-4.35v"

so do u think the throttle is givin me full power. i have looked at the software and im at like 18%-90% on the throttle settings.. any lower on the bottom # and it does nt work?

the safety thing is killing me. lol

ARC EV Racing
19 December 2012, 1418
Yep sounds like your throttle is fine then. Is your controller set to torque control?

Hey safety first!

MsHap
19 December 2012, 1539
yes its set to torque. i tried them all and i didnt really notice a diference

ARC EV Racing
19 December 2012, 1746
Assuming your controller isn't set to a low current limit I'd say that just leaves Allen's suggestion of great ratio. Anything below 4:1 is likely to make things sluggish with that setup. Lower gearing should help keep things cool too.

Hugues
19 December 2012, 2114
To better help we would need to know if your current set-up (throttle, controller, batteries, gear ratio,...) was working fine before, or you have recently made some modifications, or it's a new build and first ride

MsHap
22 December 2012, 1352
Looks like the 2ga wire made the difference :)

Allen_okc
24 December 2012, 1246
:D Awesome Christine, would love to hear how your next ride on Jello goes...

Skeezmour
24 December 2012, 1543
And video/pictures! Let us know your gearing and realative feel for 0-20mph 0-40mph ect. What you would like or don't.

Look forward to hearing more.

MsHap
05 January 2013, 1004
I will try and take some videos this week. I have alot of pictures on my fb page.
I have no idea about performance yet. I really need to change the chain its crap and register her so i dont worry. I have just been riding her like a little bit everyday and i have not charged her yet.

How far can I expect 109ah LeadAcid batteries to move a 350lbs bike with a 140lbs rider with the controller maxing out at 300a?

Skeezmour
05 January 2013, 1308
Something around 20-25 miles if your gentle. the harder you hit those lead batteries the worse your range will be. If you want them to live for more than 20-30 cycles.