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teddillard
12 September 2013, 0250
hmm. so the energy in your gas comes from little plants and **** that soaked up sunshine a long time ago. so sun > critters 'n plants > dead and mushed > millions of years > oil wells > refineries > pumps and trucks and **** > your car.

OR

solar array > electricity > your car.

won't work. makes too much sense.

:O

scoot440
12 September 2013, 0625
You are wrong, Fight Club Ted! Human beings are gifted with reason and opposable thumbs. They always follow logic and the betterment of mankind when making decisions.

(It felt good to get that off my chest. I think I'll go drink a Red Bull and smoke a pack of Marlboros while watering my bermuda grass.)

teddillard
12 September 2013, 0638
thumbs ain't nuthin special. hell. even cats got em.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6CcxJQq1x8

podolefsky
12 September 2013, 0743
Ted...meet me in the basement.

teddillard
12 September 2013, 0834
here's part 1:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8VqWKZIPrM

teddillard
12 September 2013, 0835
part 2: drilling and refining


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W8SW98-sXQ

teddillard
12 September 2013, 0842
or... cutting out the middle man
...er, men.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFIpIK6sy_A

Ken Will
12 September 2013, 0912
I read that it takes 30 years in savings to pay for solar panels if you just use them to power your house, but, only takes 10 years if you also use them to fuel your electric car.

___
12 September 2013, 1146
Ted vs Noah

Part 1
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iiVm6zmsGNE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Part 2
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SGdsta6w2Vk?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

On a more serious note, isn't it solar array > electricity > battery array > your car? Come to think of it, that battery array could be quick swapped, if you had an engine hoist.

Nuts & Volts
12 September 2013, 1150
I read that it takes 30 years in savings to pay for solar panels if you just use them to power your house, but, only takes 10 years if you also use them to fuel your electric car.

Let me know when your gasoline starts paying for itself... :D (PS - I realize you're being pro solar here)

So your solar panel pays for itself in 30 years (electric bill savings) and your electric motorcycle pays for itself (gasoline savings) in 10 years maybe.

scoot440
12 September 2013, 1208
Several versions of this story out there:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1083412_got-an-energy-efficient-household-drive-electric-for-free (This one caught my eye when it came out because of the Zero.)

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-13/adding-an-electric-car-cut-the-payback-point-of-our-solar-panel-investment-in-half

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1066446_can-an-electric-car-cut-solar-panel-payback-time-yes-but

teddillard
12 September 2013, 1235
I read that it takes 30 years in savings to pay for solar panels if you just use them to power your house, but, only takes 10 years if you also use them to fuel your electric car.

your numbers are ****ed up. welcome to fight club. :cool:

podolefsky
12 September 2013, 1240
Back of the envelope - an electric car that drives 30 miles per day (the national average) needs about 10 kWh. A sq meter of solar panels in the desert will produce 1 kWh per day, so each car needs 10 sq meter. There are 250 million cars in the US - let's say 100 million of them drive 30 miles a day (it's probably even less). That's 1 billion sq m, or about 400 sq miles. That's tiny - about the size of Phoenix.

So there's the answer - knock down Phoenix, cover it with solar panels and power all the cars in the US. Two birds with one stone :)

Spaceweasel
12 September 2013, 1252
I think the first part of your solution is generally a good idea!

Ken Will
12 September 2013, 1259
your numbers are ****ed up. welcome to fight club. :cool:

My numbers are ****ed up... Well your grandmothers first grade teacher wore combat boots!

teddillard
12 September 2013, 1514
My numbers are ****ed up... Well your grandmothers first grade teacher wore combat boots!

yeah you'd know that from personal experience old man :O

teddillard
12 September 2013, 1518
So there's the answer - knock down Phoenix, cover it with solar panels and power all the cars in the US. Two birds with one stone :)

Yeah, I read somewhere that some people are pissed that they're putting up solar farms in the frikkin desert. the. frikkin. desert. I beg you. Give me a break. I don't even get how ol' Walter Cronkite could live with himself (back when he was alive) for calling himself an environmentalist but fighting the Cape Wind project because it happened to be in the middle of where he preferred to sail his big ****ing sailboat (when he wasn't making an ass of himself up on the Coast of Maine running into lobster pots and getting thrown out of bars in Camden.

OK

i made that last bit up.

welcome to fight club.

podolefsky
12 September 2013, 1620
My old roommate was one of those - didn't want any solar in the desert - so he could drive his 4x4 through 300 year old cryptobiotic soil without anything uglying up the view. Not making that up.

Jay64
12 September 2013, 1631
I read that it takes 30 years in savings to pay for solar panels if you just use them to power your house, but, only takes 10 years if you also use them to fuel your electric car.

I think those are some very old numbers in general. But you can't make a generalized statement like that anyways. There are vast difference in electric rates throughout the US. I just did some calculations to do a PV array for my mother's place in Hawaii. It will pay for itself in 3 years without the state tax credit added in and without factoring in using it to charge an electric vehicle. Prices on PV have come way down and in a lot of places the rates of electricity are continuing to go up. But at the same time, it would take a lot longer for a system to pay for itself in, say, Pennsylvania, which has super low electric rates and doesn't get the same sun exposure that Hawaii does.

teddillard
12 September 2013, 1631
^ yeah, see? take it back about my grammy, you big mean meanie you.

Noah, give me his email address so i can tell him to go live on the Gulf.

mpipes
12 September 2013, 2042
yeah man **** the desert!.. wait.. I live there.. OK **** Phoenix, I dont live near that ****hole!

Better yet, I have 80 acres of desert property, more than enough for anyone that wants to put PV arrays on it and pay me a modest salary for life for the rights. :)

Far as Im concerned the only problem with putting the generating plants out in the desert is the infrastructure costs of transmitting the power to the population. If the utility company wants me to pay $5,000 per pole for 3 miles of wire to get my land on the grid, cant imagine what they'd want to go longer ways.