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View Full Version : Can Thunder Sky LiFePO be mounted on their sides?



Gyro
27 February 2011, 1709
Hi guys. I have a Yamaha FZR conversion that has gone through a second set of AGM batts (i posted the build before the old site was lost).

Since I like the bike, I going to go LiFePO4 as the AGMs are just not sufficient. I'm leaning towards the Thunder Sky cells, but there seems to be conflicting information as to whether they can be used mounted on their sides or not.

I'd like to go 90Ah, but they are too tall to mount upright. Even the 60Ah may be a little too tall (though I think I can squeeze them in that way).

Coninsan
27 February 2011, 1716
This was a hot topic on Elmoto v1.0, but I don't know if it made it over to v2.0.

Basicly, what I remember what we agreed on is that LiFePO4 cells don't care which way they are oriented (unless it's upside down) as long as there no stress on the terminals and the safewalves are clear. They do however need to be mounted in their clamps at all time to avoid disforming during charge and discharge.

podolefsky
27 February 2011, 1722
I was told by Elite power that the GBS cells could be oriented any way except upside down. Probably the same for TS and other LiFePO4.

BaldBruce
27 February 2011, 2107
TS says top up only. EVComponents was telling everybody that orientation doesn't matter. Common sensce says all positions are OK except on the side that is the largest surface area. Large prismatics have plates that are all in parallel with this larest surface area side and the organic solvent will eventually dry out on the top plates if you mount this way. On their side with the skinny side down is fine. You can visualize that the plates are just rotated 90 degrees from the "normal" orientaion. Any of the four possibilities of orientation where the plates are all in contact with solvent at all times is fine. These are always when the "small" side of the cube is down. The only other consideration is the vent holes. Top is the best for venting only gasses, all other orientations can vent solvent along with gasses. Does increase some safety concerns during an overcharge event, but just keep this in mind in your design if you mount in the other orientations.

DaveAK
27 February 2011, 2117
Here's what Bruce is talking about, with pretty pictures.

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/9972-thundersky-cell-orientation

BaldBruce
27 February 2011, 2133
Thanks Dave. Those pictures replace my entire paragraph!

guity
28 February 2011, 0912
My understanding was that for a while TS would custom-make batteries that had their vents re-positioned to allow installing them on their sides. But now, I am given to understand that TS doesn't make the LiFePo batteries any more, so I guess the customized vents thing has sailed as well...

Richard230
28 February 2011, 0923
My understanding was that for a while TS would custom-make batteries that had their vents re-positioned to allow installing them on their sides. But now, I am given to understand that TS doesn't make the LiFePo batteries any more, so I guess the customized vents thing has sailed as well...

TS doesn't make LiFePO4 batteries anymore? I wonder if that is what happened with Hi Power? I always figured that these Chinese battery companies have just decided that the US market wasn't worth the effort, as the Chinese market can absorb all of the product that they can make and they don't have to worry about product liability issues. How do you design a vehicle using batteries that might not be around in a couple of years? It seems to me that the battery industry needs some stabilization or small vehicle builders are going to have problems keeping their vehicles running. On the other hand, this does tend to keep used battery prices up. :rolleyes:

guity
28 February 2011, 0935
Richard, this is just from a brief conversation with Harlan over the weekend, and maybe I didn't pick up what he was saying exactly right. My understanding was not that TS had quit making batteries, but they are on to making batteries with different chemical composition than LiFePO. Maybe Harlan can clarify my addled memory...

Actually, looking on the TS site, I am seeing a different battery listed: http://www.thunder-sky.com/products_en.asp?fid=66&fid2=70

Nuts & Volts
28 February 2011, 0939
Thundersky changing names to Winston "something" company. They are going to release a Lithium Sulfur battery this year, not sure what else they will be making thou. I learned this from Jack Richard's site (EVTV).

Richard230
28 February 2011, 1539
Well, the specs certainly look good. It is interesting to see that the voltage range is a bit more narrow than their old batteries, but the predicted life cycle has substantially increased. Unfortunately, their 60 Ah battery cell is still to large to fit into my existing battery boxes.

Gyro
28 February 2011, 2044
Thanks for the information, it has been very helpful.