Power in Flux

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Electro Flyers replied to the thread Proper Forum Etiquette.
" I accept his apology. Let's hope lessons have been learned and we can move on. "

1 Minute Ago

Stevo replied to the thread Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade.
" More pics please! Any pics of Ely? (for this forum write-up, not necessarily for the book, as I'm sure adding pics increases the costs) "

5 Minutes Ago

Stevo clicked Likes for this post: Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade by Ted Dillard

5 Minutes Ago

Hugues created the thread For Sale: HPEV's AC-20 motor - $900.
" Selling my AC-20 motor purchased in march 2012 and used for 2 seasons.
Always used with Curtis controller and temperature protection.
Shaft has been shorten to 56.2 mm
Painted black, running at 96 V nominal
charts: http://www.hpevs.com/Site/power_grap...k%20metric.pdf

Bought from Electricmotorsport

Pickup in 1807 Blonay , Switzerland, don't really want to ship, that's heavy, maybe if you pay more.

Send PM, I don't come to the forum regularly

Attachment 7968Attachment 7969 "

7 Minutes Ago

DoodleWalsh replied to the thread New to Forum.
" Hello, Jessa! Welcome to the forum! "

46 Minutes Ago

DoodleWalsh replied to the thread Hey all!.
" Welcome to the forum! Can't wait to see your project. Cheers! "

47 Minutes Ago

DoodleWalsh replied to the thread Hello, everyone!.
" Thank you very much, fellas! As of now, I'm still at the learning curve, but once I get a grasp of the basics, I'll be building my own. I'll look around the forum for more info, I know I'll be learning a lot from the experienced members here. "

48 Minutes Ago

frodus clicked Likes for this post: Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade by Ted Dillard

1 Hour Ago

frodus clicked Likes for this post: Proper Forum Etiquette by Ted Dillard

1 Hour Ago

Ted Dillard replied to the thread Proper Forum Etiquette.
" I agree, but it's up to Mike and Kevin to work that out, I reckon. "

2 Hours Ago

Ted Dillard created the thread Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade.
" So, I'm working my butt off on the book, I have about 12 email threads going with various people, I have my story line, and am kind of tucking everything into bed. I have several Facebook Friends who are in the business, and one of them is deeply connected in the Northwest EV community, due to the fact that he's the CTO of one of the main components of many EVs. I'll let you guess who that is, but there's about a 50% chance you've bought his product.

He says to me, OH HEY, have you ever spoken to Ely Schless? He's a great guy, he might be able to help you.

The book is more about how technology comes together to push a breakthrough, and I'm coming from it as a "History of Science and Technology" background, not to mention my Philosophy studies, and after talking to Ely for about a day, I realize that he has been at the core of the development of electric motorcycles since he first set eyes on a Marzocchi mountain bike fork. Yet, there's very little available on Ely online, and though I now know people who've met him and raced with him, I realized this may be the single most influential thread of work throughout the entire time period.

Needless to say, I had to, for the most part, start over. I'd missed a huge part of the story.

It seems a little slow on the forum, so here's the chapter on Ely Schless and the Blade. I'll do it in installments, just to keep it readable... Don't let that keep you from chiming in, though! (Please respect my copyright, though. Power in Flux: The History of Electric Motorcycles is Ted Dillard, 2017, all rights reserved.)

Here you go:


Chapter 6: The Blade

Ely Schless is happiest when he’s making something. Mostly he likes
making motorcycles, but he likes making bicycles, electric cars, mountain
bikes, and batteries too. When he saw the 12" travel Monster T Marzocchi
Bomber Z1, a new mountain bike downhill fork, he took a Scott motor (the
same as Electrathon used), bought a Bomber, and with the help of Brett
Gober designing and fabricating the frame, they hacked together their first
“powered mountain bike” in 1997.

Attachment 7967

By the late ‘80s, Marzocchi had roughly 40 years experience in the
suspension business, both for motorcycles and race automotive applications
(Ferrari Formula One, for one example), and in ’89 entered the burgeoning
mountain bike market with the Marzocchi Star. The Star was an air-sprung
affair with about 2 inches of travel. By the mid-‘90s it had inspired the
aftermarket industry to step up but the performance hadn’t got much better.
By the time the Z1 was released in 1997, most available forks still had
around 2 inches of travel, and they were still bicycle-grade products:
“spindly” at best. The Bomber Z1 hit the market with an oil-damped, 4” of
travel, a coil-spring motorcycle shock that resembled one of their full
motorcycle suspensions more than anything anyone had strung onto the
front end of a bicycle before.

Between the shocks and the electric drive, a new concept in two
wheeled riding was born – the Denali: an electric powered mountain bikemotocross-
trials-almost motorcycle with full suspension, knobby tires and disk brakes.

Schless also likes to make and run small companies. After his first
prototype he started up Denali Electric Bikes, and later the Electric Cycle
Company (the Viento scooter) and ElectricMoto, (the Blade). Denali ran for
a few years, merging into ElectricMoto around 2001 or so, and the Blade
was pretty much a direct descendant of that first “hacked” mountain bike.

From 2001 to 2004 they sold about 40 Blades, (the first one to Gunnar
Lindstrom at Honda R&D, to be followed by a second order from them a
few months later), until Schless, at ElectricMoto, got blindsided with a stock
deal that lead to about 2 years of filings with the SEC with him as CEO.

He ultimately stepped down in around 2008 and assumed the role of CTC
(Chief Technology Consultant), and the company, after establishing
worldwide distribution and four available models, shut its doors soon after

(to be continued... ) "

2 Hours Ago

frodus replied to the thread Proper Forum Etiquette.
" I think he should be allowed back if he follows the rules and stays positive in his posts. His apology seems to show he understands. "

2 Hours Ago

Ted Dillard replied to the thread Proper Forum Etiquette.
" FWIW, Kevin (Functional Artist) posted this on DIY Electric Cars: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...ma-198475.html

I messaged him and invited him to contact Mike and discuss the situation - no word yet, but I respect the guy for posting the apology. "

2 Hours Ago

Spoonman replied to the thread Debate of the Day: Experimental Chain Tensioner.
" OK, so even if the lower support was gone, you still need to limit upwards travel, which means you need an additional element in any case and so the whole cycle reverts.

Have you considered mirroring the idler that's already in place?

I'm not certain about it, but I expect that would remove L1 entirely from the chain length calculation and effectively bring your chain pivot point into line with the swingarm pivot meaning that you get zero (or very close to it) net change in system length with +/- ~50deg travel about the aligned position. Reckon that's enough even for a dirtbike... and may remove the need for a tensioner.

Of course you could likely achieve very close to the same net effect by increasing the stiffness of the pulley you have in your video and taking a link out of the chain... "

1 Day Ago

Spoonman replied to the thread Noise issue related to Curtis 1238.
" Isolating the casing of the charger isn't going to fix anything is the charger isn't plugged in.

...I had a far longer post than this almost written but as I was finishing it something occurred to me.
Are you using appropriate logic fixing resistors at the inputs to your power loads in the absence of a control signal?

In other words have you a pull-down resistor on the Anode of those brake LED's so that the pin isn't simply left floating when the relay is disengaged?
...or are you using double throw relays to avoid leaving the pin float?

If you aren't then any passing cat could dimly light up your parking lights on account of the fact that the LED will present an infinite impedance on that line up to the point of reaching the linear component of it's IV characteristic curve.

Now the fibrillating relays are a bit more of a mystery - those are power components and not nearly a susceptible to direct excitation in such a fashion, but if they're switched by signal amplifying circuits then those could be. That being said, it's far more likely that there's a power line stability issue where they're concerned. Certainly the dust issue mentioned could cause that. Have you access to an oscilloscope that you can take a proper look at the integrity of the rails? "

1 Day Ago

mpipes replied to the thread Noise issue related to Curtis 1238.
" Still sorting through things here. So far have swapped out a 2-pole relay for a 3-pole relay on the AC Mains input power for the Thunderstruck charger so I can completely isolate it (and its ground) from the system while it's not being used. The BMS and EVCC charge controller work together to control that relay for both dedicated charge state and emergency shut-off.

Also made some isolating spacers to insert into the holes in the mounting brackets for both the Curtis and the T/S Charger, to separate the device chassis and mounting bolts from the carbon mounts. Havent had a chance to get them installed yet. "

1 Day Ago

ElMotoMike created the thread Thank you!!!.
" For those of you who have donated recently, I wish to humbly thank you and welcome you to the Friends of ElMoto club. Without your help teaching, discussing and learning with each other here (and the occasional barroom brawl), this site would be nothing. It is you all who keep this place alive. I am honored.

Mike "

1 Day Ago

Stevo replied to the thread Debate of the Day: Experimental Chain Tensioner.
" I now understand your setup better now. I'm trying to keep my drive as close to oem as possible. There is no crossbar on the top run...the only things are the rear shock reservoir and rear break line cross over... which are protected by the idler wheel attached to the frame. The chain makes contact with that wheel on extreme load and compression. There has to be a pivot there in order to protect those other components. You gotta remember this is dirt bike... a lot more travel than a street bike. So I'm waiting for some parts and I will shoot some more video with a few different solutions I have in mind. "

2 Days Ago

Electro Flyers replied to the thread Debate of the Day: Experimental Chain Tensioner.
Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
It's hard to visualize from the pics how the belt travels through that jackshaft and drive pulley. Since it's a belt drive, there must be a tensioner somewhere in that design.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

No tensioners. The primary belt from the motor to the jack shaft is tensioned by moving the motor in slots under the motor mounting bolts. The secondary belt (the sprocket in the photos is the front sprocket for that belt) from the jack shaft to the rear wheel sprocket uses the stock slots in the swing arm to slide the rear axle back to tension the belt. With the jack shaft turning concentric with the swing arm pivot, the belts' tensions remain the same through out the swing arm travel. I've noticed some OEM electric dirt bikes use a similar system, but with a chain secondary drive. This bike is waiting for the right motor/controller/battery combination, and of course $, to get finished. "

2 Days Ago

Electro Flyers replied to the thread Debate of the Day: Experimental Chain Tensioner.
Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
No I'm not moving that bottom support. I agree with the original builders (the Vertimati brothers) that is where that support belongs.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
I should have written MOVE or MODIFY
Do you mean the cross piece that interferes with the top run of the chain? What I've done in these situations and have seen the factory do to clear the chain is
(1) angle the cross piece up to clear the chain
(2) put a S curve in the X piece (use a larger diameter, stronger piece of tubing if you do this)
(3) if there's room and the chain has a master link, put the X piece between the chain runs
(4) Like in the photos in post 36, on a swing arm in this case, replace part of the X piece tube with a piece of large cross section(thick) angle iron or bent large cross section(thick) flat bar "

2 Days Ago