Power in Flux

What's on your mind?


[140]

Live Feed

Macosie replied to the thread Thinking out loud - A hybrid hack.
" Thanks for the detailed response.
I'm not sure about the sensor approach. I think as a first EV application/attempt, it is a bit more than my current skill set.
Nice thing about a sidecar is it can store the batteries, while the ICE remains. The question is whether I would need to replace the swingers to accommodate the chain and hub. That could be solved by Stevo's front hub suggestion.
Dual throttle might work too. I'm thinking I could use thumb throttles, one on each side rather than the twist. "

25 Minutes Ago

Macosie replied to the thread Thinking out loud - A hybrid hack.
"
Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
Wouldn't a much simpler solution be a hub motor on the front wheel? You would get the benefit of 2 wheel drive without any worries of steering problems.
I don't know if I have enough traction on the front wheel to do it, but it is an option I'll consider. I wonder about the feel of driving a front-wheel drive bike? "

32 Minutes Ago

Stevo clicked Likes for this post: California's Highway 1 is now open by Richard230

2 Hours Ago

Stevo replied to the thread Riding the Evoke in Beijing.
" He never mentioned what kind of range he was able to get? "

2 Hours Ago

Richard230 created the thread California's Highway 1 is now open.
" Here is an article from my newspaper today. Note the vehicles riding the new bypass in the photo. "

2 Hours Ago

frodus replied to the thread Thinking out loud - A hybrid hack.
"
Quote Originally Posted by Spoonman View Post
Agreed Frodus, if you're happy to operate two throttles simultaneously then you don't need the control feedback from the primary driven wheel, you can just enact the control manually. Definitely an easier approach to implement, although it would take significant practice for an operator to become adept at keeping things smooth.
That wasn't really what I was trying to say. You can have them tied to the same mechanical throttle.

But, I didn't recall from earlier, this is a sidecar. So no differential, but a different motor on the outside wheel. Might not work gracefully this way. It would work if the engine/motor were coupled together as a parallel hybrid. "

2 Hours Ago

frodus clicked Likes for this post: Thinking out loud - A hybrid hack by Stevo

2 Hours Ago

Stevo replied to the thread Thinking out loud - A hybrid hack.
" Wouldn't a much simpler solution be a hub motor on the front wheel? You would get the benefit of 2 wheel drive without any worries of steering problems. "

3 Hours Ago

frodus replied to the thread Electric Race Kart build.
" I would exersize caution from buying this mount, for now:

I purchased a motor mount that said it would fit Motenergy motors. I confirmed with them via email that it would fit the ME1507 motor. I received it and it did not fit, not even close. It's made for motors with different hole centers. They've been very slow to respond. It's been 3 weeks and only a few emails. They even changed their website to say it doesn't fit the ME1507.

They're being slow to respond and have no solution. I'm not hopeful. "

4 Hours Ago

Richard230 created the thread Riding the Evoke in Beijing.
" Here is a city riding impression of the Evoke Urban S model. Sounds like a decent small electric motorcycle, especially if they can keep the price around $10K USD and can find retail dealers to sell and service them, which of course can be a real problem in any country: https://electricmotorcycles.news/urb...t-impressions/ "

5 Hours Ago

Spoonman replied to the thread Thinking out loud - A hybrid hack.
" I'm gonna take these in the order they were posted.

Quote Originally Posted by Macosie View Post
How complicated is this?
Incorporating a means of monitoring the RPM on both wheels is easy enough; using that data as a control input for the assist-motor throttle would involve either a programmable microprocessor like an arduino, or a bit of analog circuit design, but would definitely provide the best results. You'd basically wind up installing an ABS rotor on each wheel, these produce pulses of voltage, you then either count the pulses each side and throttle to match (arduino solution), or you time average the voltage and use a differential amplifier to control the output (analog circuit solution). So in total, whilst it's not 'mad skilz' level, there's a bit to it alright.

Quote Originally Posted by Macosie View Post
On the other hand, a hybrid with range extending ice may be possible? If I were to use the pm as primary drive motor while free wheeling the ICE (not sure I can fo that), drain battery, then run off ICE and while freewheel regen charge batteries.
It's an agricultural approach but it could work if you can fit it all in...

Quote Originally Posted by Macosie View Post
What did you mean by 'cog'?
'cog' as in 'cogging'. It's an effect experienced in PM machines where the rotor doesn't spin smoothly, but rather has a 'lumpy' feel to the motion if you were to rotate it by hand. The effect is created by the magnetic forces experienced as the fixed, permanent poles of the rotor pass their current driven counterparts in the stator. Machines which don't have a permanent magnetic field don't suffer from the effect.

Quote Originally Posted by frodus View Post
Not necessarily true. If the controller is in torque mode, it shouldn't matter. You'd just need to mechanically tie in another throttle so you can control the motor controller. If you push the accelerator, both engine and Controller will increase speed. The controller will not care about RPM, only the torque commanded to it. The more you push, the more torque it puts out. The less you push, the less torque.
Agreed Frodus, if you're happy to operate two throttles simultaneously then you don't need the control feedback from the primary driven wheel, you can just enact the control manually. Definitely an easier approach to implement, although it would take significant practice for an operator to become adept at keeping things smooth.

Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
You guys are missin' the point... if you drive the side wheel, the rig will want to go straight. If you wire in some kind of microswitch to the tripleclamps that will cut the side wheel power off when a turn is initiated, that might work. Otherwise, the rig will be difficult if not impossible to turn. That's my experience racing mx sidehacks talkin. Just sayin
Not missing it - circumventing it. The two standard strategies for avoiding 'solid axle' behaviours between driven wheels are to employ either a differential or independent drive. In the dual throttle implementation Frodus suggests above, you basically drive it like any tracked machine, throttling the inside wheel less than the outside when you want to turn - this conforms to independent drive. In my control based implementation above, one of the prerequisites was that the 'assist motor' should be easily overpowered by the primary motor, this caveat means that the system, even under ostensibly solid axle control strategy, acts more like a limited slip differential arrangement, with the increased torque loading imposed on the assist motor when it is on the inside of a corner serving to limit its influence, and the absence of regen permitting it to freewheel ahead of the primary drive wheel when on the outside of a corner.

Quote Originally Posted by Macosie View Post
I'm thinking that the 2wheel drive would only work if both wheels are connected. If the bike is on ICE and tge chair us on an electric drive, keeping them synced would be a problem. I could see the sidecar wheel initiating an unwanted turn while I'm climbing up my crappy hill and putting me in the bushes.
Both wheels driving the rig in a straight line is kinda what I need for the hill.
The above is correct if you don't have either of the strategies outline above - ie: dual throttle for independent control, or closed loop control which effectively 'connects' the wheels together as you suggest.
The sidecar wheel will only initiate a turn under the former strategy if you throttle it up so as to do so, and it won't initiate a turn in the latter strategy because it is only ever driven to matched RPM with the primary drive wheel. "

6 Hours Ago

Macosie replied to the thread Thinking out loud - A hybrid hack.
" I'm thinking that the 2wheel drive would only work if both wheels are connected. If the bike is on ICE and tge chair us on an electric drive, keeping them synced would be a problem. I could see the sidecar wheel initiating an unwanted turn while I'm climbing up my crappy hill and putting me in the bushes.
Both wheels driving the rig in a straight line is kinda what I need for the hill.



Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk "

9 Hours Ago

Stevo replied to the thread Thinking out loud - A hybrid hack.
" You guys are missin' the point... if you drive the side wheel, the rig will want to go straight. If you wire in some kind of microswitch to the tripleclamps that will cut the side wheel power off when a turn is initiated, that might work. Otherwise, the rig will be difficult if not impossible to turn. That's my experience racing mx sidehacks talkin. Just sayin "

1 Day Ago

frodus replied to the thread Thinking out loud - A hybrid hack.
"
Quote Originally Posted by Spoonman View Post
Hmmm.. in theory I could see this working with the Hub motor on the sidecar wheel alright; but ideally (and perhaps necessarily) the motor itself would have to be an induction or doubly fed machine rather than PM. Reason being that the PM machines will still generate potentially quite a lot of voltage when freewheeling, and could cog; where as the induction machine can freewheel harmlessly.

The theory follows that you spec this "assist motor" to:
A - motor only, no regen
B - set cut in from standing
C - have a fairly low cut out speed
D - be readily overpowered by the main drive wheel so that low speed maneuvers don't suffer from 'solid rear axle' behaviours.

You'll need to have and RPM sensor on the main wheel and control the assist wheel to match rotation.
Not necessarily true. If the controller is in torque mode, it shouldn't matter. You'd just need to mechanically tie in another throttle so you can control the motor controller. If you push the accelerator, both engine and Controller will increase speed. The controller will not care about RPM, only the torque commanded to it. The more you push, the more torque it puts out. The less you push, the less torque. "

1 Day Ago

Macosie replied to the thread Thinking out loud - A hybrid hack.
"
Quote Originally Posted by Spoonman View Post

You'll need to have and RPM sensor on the main wheel and control the assist wheel to match rotation.
How complicated is this? I like the idea of a lowish speed motor as an assist. I don't know much about induction engines. Mostly what I read about is PM engines. Will have to research.

On the other hand, a hybrid with range extending ice may be possible? If I were to use the pm as primary drive motor while free wheeling the ICE (not sure I can fo that), drain battery, then run off ICE and while freewheel regen charge batteries.

What did you mean by 'cog'?

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk "

1 Day Ago

ElMotoMike clicked Likes for this post: Sarolea Manx7 superbike by Richard230

1 Day Ago

Stevo clicked Likes for this post: Sachs xtc 125 conversion by flo

1 Day Ago

flo replied to the thread Sachs xtc 125 conversion.
" Hi
after checking chain clearence yesturday its finally time to make some chips..
started with first piece - the motor-mount.
Snug fit as it should be.
Guess i will ad some lighting holes tomorrow- easy as perfect position is not critical...
Flo "

2 Days Ago

Spoonman replied to the thread Sarolea Manx7 superbike.
" Hubbahubba! "

2 Days Ago

Richard230 created the thread Sarolea Manx7 superbike.
" If you have the money, Sarolea has the bike for you: https://electricmotorcycles.news/sar...ic-super-bike/ "

2 Days Ago