Power in Flux

What's on your mind?


[140]

Live Feed

Richard230 replied to the thread Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade.
"
Quote Originally Posted by Ted Dillard View Post
Chapter 4, p70 - "Looking for the Crux" - first subject is Electric Motorsport, second is Vectrix. (In which I quoted a "Richard Harmon"!)

to wit:

"Within a few years, Electric Motorsports
would source frames from Tiger Motors, Inc., a Thailand based company
that had a small array of 250cc motorcycles and scooters of its own,
including the eBoxer, an electric motorcycle similar to the GPR-S. They
(Tiger) had affiliations with some major manufacturers, including Sachs,
Yoshimura, and others, and it appeared that Chinese motorcycle
manufacturer Zongshen supplied much of their motorcycle chassis. This
would give EMS instant access to a DOT certified, street-legal platform."
I recall that. What I wondered was how did those characters manage to kill their goose and what ever became of them and their Native motorcycle operation? It seemed as though as soon as Brammo came out with the Enertia, they headed for the hills, never to be seen again - at least not by me. "

38 Minutes Ago

Ted Dillard replied to the thread Motenergy ME1302.
" No problem - I've basically spent the entire day so far surfing here and other places. LOL Not too busy at work atm.

Check this out - https://www.goldenmotor.com/ Scroll down to the 3KW BLDC Motor. Not too shabby.

Attachment 7972

I think that (at 3000 RPM!) could get you going fast enough to scare the b'jeesus outta you (isn't that the point?), and it's only 17lbs or so, 6" in diameter, and cheap. It has a liquid cooling, and a 72V option too. You could run it dry, it leaves more room for batteries, and you can add cooling if it starts getting all melty. I haven't used the Goldens, but I know they're not uncommon for the smaller mini and bicycle conversion builds. "

4 Hours Ago

JD167 replied to the thread Motenergy ME1302.
" wow thanks for the quick responses guys! and no, I am not trying to go 70 hahaha I would be happy with 45. My goals for the build are 1. being able to out pace my stock KLX110 2. getting around 45 min of ride time per charge 3. keeping weight and handling characteristics as close to or better than an i.c.e bike as possible. I checked out the ME0909 and it sounds like a great option, the supplier said they have put them in mini bike before and they feel significantly faster than a stock XR100 so I'm thinking this might be the motor I need. "

4 Hours Ago

Ted Dillard replied to the thread Motenergy ME1302.
" ...yeah, that's only 24lbs- same weight as the ETEK. 48V would be fine, too - you don't want to go over 70 on that thing, do you? "

5 Hours Ago

Stevo replied to the thread Motenergy ME1302.
" ME0909 would be a good choice for a lil mini/pit bike
I have a controller that you can buy cheap (Alltrax AXE4834)
I'll even throw in a contactor and a main fuse/holder "

5 Hours Ago

Stevo clicked Likes for this post: Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade by Ted Dillard

5 Hours Ago

Stevo replied to the thread Proper Forum Etiquette.
" funny? Nah... cute? maybe "

5 Hours Ago

Ted Dillard replied to the thread Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade.
"
Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
It almost looks like one of these: Oset

I thought I read somewhere that GasGas was prototyping an e version trials bike. Electric torque x silence x trials riding=perfect marriage
...more correctly, the Oset looks a lot like this.

The Oset, though, is strictly a kid's bike AFAIK. "

5 Hours Ago

Ted Dillard replied to the thread Motenergy ME1302.
" OoooOOoo. I was going to quip something about overkill being impossible, until I looked up the bike.

Yeah, that's a badass motor that I'd put into at least a 350cc frame, but more better a 600cc frame. I'd say for a mini-bike mini-cycle type of thing, I'd be going with a brushed, smaller, cheaper motor, but I can't seem to find a Motenergy that's lighter. Too bad you couldn't find an original ETEK, that'd be perfect.

I did a post a while back on horsepower ratings, maybe this will help: https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2012/04/...-the-universe/

Oh... and WELCOME! "

5 Hours Ago

Stevo replied to the thread Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade.
" It almost looks like one of these: Oset

I thought I read somewhere that GasGas was prototyping an e version trials bike. Electric torque x silence x trials riding=perfect marriage

To take a stab at one of Richard's questions... Battery tech is what's keeping these small companies from going big. The tech just isn't there yet to make any of these truly marketable. Ely has it right when he's talking about gasoline equivalent. THAT phrase, "gasoline equivalence", is brilliant terminology! "

5 Hours Ago

Stevo clicked Likes for this post: Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade by Ted Dillard

6 Hours Ago

Stevo replied to the thread Noise issue related to Curtis 1238.
"
That voltage shouldnt be there at all though, and while dim lights arent a big deal, the future audio system picking up any noise is.
Maybe if you wire a filter into the audio circuit input, there wont be any issues with noise. Audio is an awesome idea ... it's got me thinking!!!... "

6 Hours Ago

JD167 created the thread Motenergy ME1302.
" Hey everybody,

My name is JD and I am new to electric motorcycles and electric motors in general really haha. I have a KX65 collecting dust in my garage and would like to do an electric conversion to it and use it mainly as a after hours pit bike on my backyard track. I have seen a couple mini-bike conversions using modded oset motors etc. but I want the bike to have power equal to around 20hp +/- and was told a water cooled brushless motor would be my best bet. I have been looking at this ME1302 model and was wondering if it would be total overkill or a good option for my project. here is the description from the web store:

Designed for long life. No brush maintenance. The motor is 92% efficient at voltages between 24 to 96 VDC. Continuous current of 125 amps AC (180 Amps DC into the motor control). This is a 3-phase, Y-connected Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor with an axial air gap. It has two stators with a rotor in the center.

1) This is a 4 pole motor (8 magnets). 2) The Phase to Phase winding resistance is 0.013 Ohms. 3) The maximum recommended rotor speed is 5000 RPM. 4) Voltages from 0 to 96 VDC input to the control. 5) Torque constant of 0.15 Nm per Amp 6) The Inductance Phase to Phase is 0.10 Milli-Henry with 28 turns per phase. 7) Armature Inertia is 45 Kg Cm Squared. 8) Peak current of 420 Amps AC for 1 minute (600 Amps DC into the motor control). 9) Weight of 35 pounds. 10) Peak Stall Torque of 60 FtLb.

Most of this might as well been chinese as far as my understanding goes but i've ordered a couple books on electric motors and electric vehicle conversions to hopefully change that but what i did see was a peak stall torque rating of 60 ft/lbs and that seemed like wayyyyyy to much for a pit bike. Can you adjust power delivery with a controller and battery set up or am I on the wrong track with a motor like this?

Any advice is greatly appreciated,

JD "

6 Hours Ago

Ted Dillard replied to the thread Proper Forum Etiquette.
" ...as will we, I'm sure (speaking for myself). I know I have a little weird sense of humor, and it takes a while for people to figure out I should just be ignored.

(I mean, the dog eating a watermelon was funny, wasn't it? WASN'T IT???)

"

8 Hours Ago

Ted Dillard clicked Likes for this post: Proper Forum Etiquette by Functional Artist

8 Hours Ago

Functional Artist replied to the thread Proper Forum Etiquette.
" Thanks guys!

I've always been a OMG (one man gang) self taught, self employed etc.

I usually just "build away" & folks just watch, so "getting input" is kinda new to me.

I will try to do better "

8 Hours Ago

Ted Dillard replied to the thread Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade.
" Chapter 4, p70 - "Looking for the Crux" - first subject is Electric Motorsport, second is Vectrix. (In which I quoted a "Richard Harmon"!)

to wit:

"Within a few years, Electric Motorsports
would source frames from Tiger Motors, Inc., a Thailand based company
that had a small array of 250cc motorcycles and scooters of its own,
including the eBoxer, an electric motorcycle similar to the GPR-S. They
(Tiger) had affiliations with some major manufacturers, including Sachs,
Yoshimura, and others, and it appeared that Chinese motorcycle
manufacturer Zongshen supplied much of their motorcycle chassis. This
would give EMS instant access to a DOT certified, street-legal platform." "

8 Hours Ago

Richard230 clicked Likes for this post: Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade by Ted Dillard

8 Hours Ago

Richard230 replied to the thread Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade.
" Ted, I hope you are including a discussion about the Electric Motorsport company in your new book. As an early adopter of two of their half-baked electric motorcycles, I would sure like to know how they came to enter the DOT-approved, freeway-legal, production electric motorcycle business and how they managed to dig a grave full of Native GPR-S bikes and jump into it a few years later.

And of course, trying to figure out what has been going on with Vectrix during the past 20 years has got my head spinning.

How do so many of these small electric motorcycle manufacturers, which seem to have the basics of a decent product manage to let the business collapse once the vehicles get into customer's hands and their market share starts growing? How is it that many small electric motorcycle designers that seem to have come up with a good product have managed to fade away after just a few years? Are electrical engineers and dreamers just lousy businessmen?. (As you can see I actually find these business stories more interesting than the actual vehicles.) "

8 Hours Ago

Ted Dillard replied to the thread Power in Flux excerpt: The Blade.
" The Denali started with lead-acid, which, in spite of the weight, gave
the bike a lot of capacity and power (lead acid can discharge at alarmingly
high rates). Though Schless had been following lithium battery
development since around ’95, the products were nothing that could be
used in a commercial product. It wasn’t until 2003 that he began working
with lithium in the Blade XT. He started with the Thundersky batteries and
BMS, and the switch to lithium meant he had to redesign the frame entirely:
“I had just built parts for 50 bikes; swing arms, frames, plastic parts (we
did it all in house), based on lead acid. So integrating the lithiums, which
were light but bulky, meant butchering the existing frames and swing arms
to accommodate them. I preferred lead acid for simplicity and higher
currents.”

However, as he explains in a 2005 interview, his lead-acid bikes had an
equivalent gas tank capacity of about a half-gallon. The switch to lithium
gave the bikes about a 2 gallon equivalent capacity. In the meantime,
Briggs and Stratton had pulled the plug on ETEK motor availability, and,
after designing the bikes around the ETEK Schless was forced to find an
alternative. He settled on the Perm (Cupex), the same choice Brammo
would make a few years later with the Enertia.

Attachment 7971

As early as 1998, the Denali was getting press in media like Mountain
Bike Action magazine, including a cover. By 2007, the Blade XT3 was getting
coverage in the mainstream gas-centric motocross media as “the world’s
first motorcycle to run on lithium batteries,” and was sporting some fairly
impressive specs:

Blade XT3 Specifications

• Motor: 21.2Kw electric motor
• Battery: 60 volt, 50 Ah, Lithium Ion
• Run time: 3 hours casual, 1 hour MX
128
• Recharge time: 30 minutes to 90 minutes
• 0-30 mph speed: 4 seconds
• Frame: CNC aluminum/steel down tube
• Brakes: hydraulic discs
• Suspension: 35mm Marzocchi forks/WP rear shock/260mm travel
• Options: 38mm Ohlins forks/Ohlins shock
• Wheels: 24″ x 3″ mountain bike

Here you go, StevO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRfqyAwXScQ

more to come... "

10 Hours Ago