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Thread: New PID's for Orion BMS and possibility to read Curtis motor data with Torque

              
   
   
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    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Cool New PID's for Orion BMS and possibility to read Curtis motor data with Torque

    Hi guys,

    was just speaking to Andrew at Ewert Energy Systems , maker of the Orion BMS.

    Maybe some of you know but there are some cool kind of new PID's available from the Orion BMS CAN bus that you can read with the Torque app:

    new PID 1.JPG


    new PID 2.JPG

    2 new PID allow to display the cell NUMBER of the highest and lowest voltage cells. Before you had to log them all and then check the log to find you highest and lowest cells.

    But the cool thing in the second picture is that you can get some data from your HPEV motor going through the Curtis controller then through the Orion BMS. Andrew told me to check with the people setting up HPEV's and Curtis, but i thought i'd post that here, maybe some of you guys have tried to do that already. As per Andrew's e-mail:

    The PIDs at the bottom of the list make use of the BMS as an intermediary OBD2 proxy between the motor controller and the Torque adapter (the motor controller doesn't speak OBD2 but the BMS does). Essentially the BMS receives data from the controller then allows it to be retrieved via OBD2 from Torque.

    You would need to have an HPEV motor controller (Curtis) that is set up using CANBUS and enable the Curtis support in the BMS for these PIDs to work. I might suggest getting in touch with wherever you purchased the HPEV setup from to inquire about how to do this or if it's possible with your setup.


    Any hardware needed for this or it's just wiring ?

    Cool

    Edit March 15th 2017: this is a rather long thread, if you're looking for the conclusion and how to do it then please jump here:
    http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4...ll=1#post50473
    Last edited by Hugues; 15 March 2017 at 1235.
    Regards from Switzerland
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    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Maybe some related information on HPEVs site:
    http://www.hpevs.com/obdii_support_hpevs.html
    Regards from Switzerland
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    Empulse R #24 frodus's Avatar
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    I don't think the Orion is required to get data from the Curtis anymore, HPEVS added OBDII functionality last year. It's pretty cool, and I harped on them a while to add it.

    That's good that Orion added those extra PID's if they weren't already there. I think Elithion had the OBDII PID's that allowed you to tell low and high cell voltages and which cell it was since the beginning of their OBDII support. Good to see more manufacturers supporting more PIDs.

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    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frodus View Post
    I don't think the Orion is required to get data from the Curtis anymore, HPEVS added OBDII functionality last year. It's pretty cool, and I harped on them a while to add it.

    That's good that Orion added those extra PID's if they weren't already there. I think Elithion had the OBDII PID's that allowed you to tell low and high cell voltages and which cell it was since the beginning of their OBDII support. Good to see more manufacturers supporting more PIDs.
    But if i use a separate OBD adapter for the motor/controller data than i'm not sure how i can combine this with battery data in Torque on my phone, i think Torque cannot read from 2 adapters.

    In DIY electric car forum there is a thread which gives some info, someone has managed to get all this data on the same Torque dashboard. The Curtis and Orion BMS need to talk to each other through optoisolated connection, then Orion shoots all data to Torque. I asked for the connection diagram, will see,
    Regards from Switzerland
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    Empulse R #24 frodus's Avatar
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    I think torque can read from 2 adapters, the two devices (Controller and Orion) need different master addresses.

    It's likely easier as you've done it, I just wanted to put it out there that it's been supported in HPEVS for a while, so anyone not using Orion should be able to get it working without the Orion.

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    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    some information coming in in this thread, from post #15 onwards,
    http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...tml#post838865


    the CAN isolator is rather expensive, wonder if i could use a simple optocoupler like this to do the job:
    http://www.distrelec.ch/en/optocoupl...=50&simi=93.62
    Regards from Switzerland
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    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugues View Post
    ...


    the CAN isolator is rather expensive, wonder if i could use a simple optocoupler like this to do the job:
    http://www.distrelec.ch/en/optocoupl...=50&simi=93.62
    Interesting read on how the CAN protocol works:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus

    A CAN isolator would cost me around 200 usd here, so I wonder if I could build one myself with simple optocouplers, one for CAN High and one for CAN low. I don't see anything in the protocol that would not work, provided the optocoupler can follow the frequency. I think i'm going to try it, optocoupler are dirt cheap, less than a dollar, worst thing it does not work but at least i will have learn something.
    Regards from Switzerland
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    I see digikey has the iso1050evm for $49US which could be a cheap solution for isolated CAN or you can get the chip and some parts and build your own but it will cost more with your labor added.

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    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skahle View Post
    I see digikey has the iso1050evm for $49US which could be a cheap solution for isolated CAN or you can get the chip and some parts and build your own but it will cost more with your labor added.
    I thought about building it but it's not as simple as i thought. The CAN signal goes both ways whereas a single optocoupler is unidirectional. It can be done, but if you google the topic, it's not simple.

    Instead i bought this isolated CAN bus repeater on ebay:
    http://www.ebay.ch/itm/282312297142?...&sojTags=bu=bu

    I should receive it next week then i can test it.
    Regards from Switzerland
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    Seņor Member podolefsky's Avatar
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    The B&B CANOP is the standard solution for interfacing with a non-isolated Curtis and is recommended by HPEVS. The main issues are size and that it's not very rugged. The one you found on ebay looks like an older model - listing says it only supports up to 256kbps so make sure your CAN bus is at that rate or lower.

    There aren't many alternatives. One possibility is the PCAN optoadapter. It's compact, not waterproof but more robust than the CANOP, and a little cheaper. It has a 120 ohm terminating resistor and 5V power in on one side. I can confirm that it works as long as you can power it. One approach would be to use the Curtis 5V output to power it, which gives you the needed terminating resistor and keeps power and signal isolated on the controller side. Need to be careful because the 12V/5V output is 200mA max (combined). If you only have the speed encoder hooked up you should be ok. If you have the Curtis display and anything else you might draw too much. It won't hurt anything if you do, the controller will just shut down the output.
    - Noah Podolefsky -
    The GSX-E

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