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Thread: Italjet Dragster conversion

              
   
   
  1. #1
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    Italjet Dragster conversion

    Hello forum

    I drug my Italjet Dragster out the storage garage today to start thinking about conversion so figured I'd start documenting my build.

    This is a smart hopped up ICE example:



    I've not done a conversion before but am quite proficient mechanically. Learnt a lot from forums also and basic Engineering knowledge (by degree and experience).

    The Dragster will be an interesting challenge, I bought it for form over function and never aspired to converting it to electric. I intended to do a motor swap from its Italian family for more performance and longer range touring. Then it struck me it'd be a cool EV but I didn't plan on having significant range. But I've steadily convinced myself that I can get enough range for practical every day use by building my own 18650 battery from the modular kits.

    You'll understand the challenge from the photos. The scoot has a brilliant tubular trellis chassis and hub centre steering up front. But not much large open square space for a battery block. No leaf modules in this build unfortunately...











    Next is the motor. I am very taken by the QS mid drive kits, however the Dragster has a unique rear suspension design. So I'm not sure the QS kit would work. Still tbc but my alternative and I've always liked the idea, is to replace the crank with a motor and fit a fixed belt primary from the motor to rear drive. It's a bit complicated but doable. I might look for a scrap 4t engine with a much larger crank case to fit a bigger motor too, just because...







    So right now these are my musings but hopefully I can start making some decisions and get started on building (and some restoration of the scooter bits).

    I appreciate your constructive input and discussion but please minimise chit chat and opinion to keep my thread easier to read and maintain.

    Thanks


    Cheers
    Tyler
    Last edited by tylerwatts; 04 April 2020 at 1729.

  2. #2
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    Placeholder: motor solutions.

    1: modify current 2t motor by splitting the crankcase and fitting an inrunner motor in the bore.

    Bad news is the bore is too small for any decent size motor. Option 1 is a no-go.

    2: placing a larger motor in the RHS case with a longer shaft through the crankcase. Makes the motor wider.
    Could allow an outrunner motor.
    Likely air cooled.

    This will work with the LMX type IPM motor in option 1. But I have room for a larger motor now.

    I found this motor, or 2 sizes of, which look promising for higher continuous power for faster road cruising. I'm drawn to the larger d9000 model but it might be too wide. Fall back is the d7500. I'll have to think about how I mount it.

    http://eastgem.net/d9000.html



    Now outrunner motors become an option which starts a whole different route... Lots of success rewinding big RC outrunner motors on the forum, though I'm not sure I like this route. If I can get someone to rewind a motor for me that might be a good option.

    Then there are high end RC / UAV motors like this one I found. Power ratings are ridiculously over rated and probably based on running at altitude with huge airflow etc so I basing on a quarter of the capability. Problem is they are in the US, more pricey, more exotic etc.

    https://neumotors.com/neumotors-8000...0-30000-watts/



    This company also make very nice inrunner motors.

    https://neumotors.com/neumotors-4400...00-watt-class/



    But this opens up different ideas. I disregarded ideas of using QS mid drive motors due to their size but there might be options here.

    http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_...Motor/107.html

    But Cyclone also list some interesting motor options on their site, though there isn't much info to see or choose. Il have to contact them or do some more searching on these...

    http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-motors.htm

    Update: Cyclone has another website with more info on the motors though the drawing isn't helpful... I'll still have to enquire about the different motors.

    https://elite-motor.com/non-geared-m...ontroller.html





    This is apparently the 18kw motor drawing, that is an ambitious rating but it's got the size, similar to the QS and Eastgem motor sizes so technically should be capable of 12-14kw peaks.



    Update: Start about 8min in.

    https://youtu.be/tTOVSCb4ADY

    I especially love and was planning on machining half the crank shaft into a coupler to match the other half fitting on the motor shaft.

    So now I need to identify how I would mount a mounting plate to the casing to mount a motor to, which motor to use, and what to do about the engine / swingarm unit pivot mount, keep it or replicate it to make more room for the motor...

    Update: looking at this image and the Cyclone Elite website (see below) motor image after it,it seems that by replacing the front motor plate with a larger diameter and drilling to match the casing mount holes I'll save all that space and weight of 2 plates plus the motor!





    But the 2 lugs to the rear side (left in pic) holding the rusty exhaust bracket must be trimmed flush and I'll use them to carry the torque load of the motor as the 3 M6 mounts aren't enough alone. I don't currently plan to use the coolant pump, yet. But had a great idea for integrating it onto the rear of the motor if required.

    If I got fancy (and expensive) I could have a recessed front plate made to pull the motor further into the casing maybe 20mm for a bit more clearance. Bigger motor actually but I need the clearance to fit it in!

    3: option 1 or 2 using a larger 4t engine donor, ideally big 200cc. But weary of larger wheel and heavier drive assembly etc.

    Update: I've learnt that the 128 & 180cc Dragster models actually have a different frame design, wheelbase looks a bit longer and the engine and suspension mounts are different. Which means no option 4 unless I modify my frame. Options 2 and 4 are looking strong...

    4: fabricate a cradle for carrying the battery and allowing mounting a QS Motors mid drive kit.
    Also allows for alternative rear shock placement.
    Could increase wheelbase significantly.





    5: fabricate own swingarm using new QS mid drive motor design (see Revolt Motors - India design) with motor pivoting with wheel but much shorter wheelbase.
    I've decided I'm not going to pursue this option. Either I get the motor mounted to the stock drive casing or I use a package swingarm from QS.

    Edit: option 6:
    Reuse/rehouse a HSG motor, probably 48v version so it's easier to power and throw current at. Following some guys using a Hyundai unit giving 20kw outputs up to 16krpm. I don't need either so plenty margin for more modest use! And this is an IPM motor so torquey!

    Note: the Battery will still require a support but this can be via a suspended case if swing warm uses the original mounting design.

    PS: yes, I'm an engineer, I over engineer! I have to try to KISS...

    Cheers
    Tyler
    Last edited by tylerwatts; 15 April 2020 at 0411. Reason: Updates to info.

  3. #3
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    Placeholder: battery build

    Update:

    So here's some dimensions of the frame and you can see it is a compound trapezoidal shape everywhere so gets complicated to fit a battery shape.



    I've been thinking about the N.E.S.E battery modules and how I would design something similar. My idea is to use the battery placement layout they use and their terminal plates but use a hex pattern layout to get more cells in. Then hopefully design it so that one end of the case over the terminals is the lid, and base of the next layer and they stack like this then clamp together and are closed in a box also. I'll try leave the sides open and my hope is to 3d print each layer as a whole piece so my battery box can have clear sides to show the cells. And I will add cooling fans if I spec it for higher continuous output.

    Update: a very poor sketch trying to get the idea started...



    Frame pics for context:








    Cheers
    Tyler
    Last edited by tylerwatts; 16 April 2020 at 1232.

  4. #4
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    Placeholder: restoration

    Cheers
    Tyler

  5. #5
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    Placeholder: wiring & electrics

    Cheers
    Tyler

  6. #6
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    Placeholder: charging

    Cheers
    Tyler
    Last edited by tylerwatts; 01 April 2020 at 0127.

  7. #7
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    Placeholder: BMS

    Cheers
    Tyler
    Last edited by tylerwatts; 01 April 2020 at 0127.

  8. #8
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    Placeholder: Controller

    1: So I have considered the Nucular controllers but not entirely keen on them.

    2: I discovered Power Velocity controllers which look very appealing, ap adjustability is great and I'd prefer to over spec the controller and run it lower power just pushing the motor limits.

    http://powervelocity.com/home/60-18f...mable-8kw.html

    Anybody have suggestions if love to hear them. I'm not keen on using a Kelly controller.

    Cheers
    Tyler
    Last edited by tylerwatts; 01 April 2020 at 1459.

  9. #9
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    Placeholder: upgrades.

    Piaggio caliper upgrade?

    Adjustable dampers?

    Cheers
    Tyler
    Last edited by tylerwatts; 04 April 2020 at 1302.

  10. #10
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    Placeholder: other info

    Some drive unit dimensions:







    Cheers
    Tyler
    Last edited by tylerwatts; 05 April 2020 at 0311.

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