Power in Flux
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Thread: Transmissions. yeah.

              
   
   
  1. #181
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    T-Rush, I had stumbled upon a video some time back that you may find some answers to your questions: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4536

    Ted, sorry for keeping this thread alive! LOL
    Last edited by Stevo; 30 March 2018 at 0947.
    Current rides: '96 Honda Ohlins VFR, '03 Cannondale C440R, '03 Cannondale Cannibal, '06 Yamaha 450 Wolverine 4x4
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  2. #182
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    yeah, hehe...I saw that video awhile ago too...had totally forgotten about his buddies voice tho

    ...I didn't know I was asking any questions here

    thought about this a bit, and I have to say: I still just think its sad Ted started this thread about something kinda neat and different...and everyone just turned it into another 'transmission thread' I found tons of other ones of those...and no way was I starting anything that could remotely resemble another one
    (go back and read the OP, then look thru the thread and see if you can find much of anything that relates to that like I didn't)
    ..so now I am going to ask a question

    did Ted or anyone(here) try this?
    Quote Originally Posted by teddillard View Post
    The implications of adding a second, or bigger motor rather than a transmission started falling into place when I starting thinking about adding a two-motor configuration to the R5e. Here's the basic jist of it.

    When you add a second motor, in parallel, then you're doubling the torque (and load) at any given RPM. You're also doubling the current handling capacity- a 300amp system becomes a 600amp system.
    I know other bikes did it years ago
    ...think I saw some of the first Isle of Man TT Zero bikes doing it, maybe even before they did the first running in 2010, I thought I saw something when they were testing, but I'd already gotten out of my second involvement with EVs by then(this is going to be my third try with it now, but a motorcycle this time..so actually I'm not as noob as I might appear)

    or heck, I'll just go back to the search again...screw it

  3. #183
    Senior Member Ted Dillard's Avatar
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    Thanks for making me go back and look at the start of the thread. "Brutus", on the first page by the way, is the aforementioned Chris Bell, who at the time thought transmissions were a good thing. After only one bike - not one model, one bike - he changed his mind. This is a guy who can build a reduction gearbox so beautiful it'd make you cry. So yeah.

    Just so you understand, back then you simply couldn't buy a motor that was big enough, and light enough in any sort of axial, liquid cooled design. That's why Motoczysz ran 3 of the Agni motors on their first IOM bike (and blew them all up). THIS is why I mentioned the YASA, EMRAX etc.

    What we learned was that running twin PMDC motors is damned near impossible. Even Cedric Lynch couldn't balance his motors for Czysz, and they're his motors. Running dual or more AC motors (loosely using that term) is not as much of a problem. Still touchy, but do-able. But no, to answer your question, I never did it, and I don't remember anyone on the group at the time doing it either, save Dice running the Predator with series-wound DC motors.
    Last edited by Ted Dillard; 30 March 2018 at 1145. Reason: snark mode: engaged
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  4. #184
    I should be working! furyphoto's Avatar
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    Isn't the Enertac dual hub motor basically doing this? (running two motors). Although, while adding significant un-sprung weight.
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  5. #185
    Senior Member Ted Dillard's Avatar
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    Yup, that's exactly right. Also you can stack most of the motors like the YASA etc.
    Power in Flux: The History of Electric Motorcycles
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  6. #186
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    I always wondered what happened to the blown Aprilia RS50 engine that I sent to chdfarl, in MA. He said that he planned to use the engine's 6-speed transmission on his build. Since he never posted about giving it a try, I guess it just didn't work out. But I did get rid of that broken lump without being arrested by the CA EPA for disposing of a container of toxic waste in a landfill.
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    Last edited by Richard230; 30 March 2018 at 1417.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield 500, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  7. #187
    Senior Member Ted Dillard's Avatar
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    I feel like, well, I started this thread and it's run it's course. Any discussion of transmissions is pretty much academic, as well as a complete waste of time. I'm asking Mike to close the thread.
    Power in Flux: The History of Electric Motorcycles
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  9. #188
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    more stuff about transmissions, I guess

    eh, I don't know about that.....and not that I'm trying to be rude or funny or anything; but don't you think it would be odd if I started a new thread on the exact same subject instead of using the forum search function to make use of the information thats already here?....isn't that what this site is here for.....and if you guys missed some information back in the day, that now could make this work, wouldn't you want to know about it?

    I get that this thread is 6 years old, and now its great that you can afford and fit those bigger more expensive motors....but its still new to me, and I can't have those newer motors

    personally I'd like to actually see performance data of electric motors running different gear ratios....because I remember stuff like this from back when I was into this whole DIY EV stuff before

    http://evtv.me/2011/04/1955-porsche-...0-amp-upgrade/ sure you could drive an EV like that around all day in the same gear...but if you wanted to be in the powerband for acceleration at lower speeds shifting would be a good option .....seems like otherwise you guys are just building bikes with fixed ratios to only have peak power at one smaller mph range(wouldn't even the newer fancy motors still have a peak power point?)....so what does it hurt to consider my unbalanced system of dual fixed ratio motors to widen that peak into a plateau?

    cause it seems that most of the hardware I have available to me is still about the same as what was around then...and I don't want to use a transmission

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    .... If MOST of your vehicle's use is at hwy speeds of 65 mph, then you would try to gear for that speed at the most efficient sweet spot on your motor/controller combo. If most of your use is at 45 mph city street commuting, then that's where you should set the final gear drive for. ....
    the motorcycle I'm converting doesn't allow space for a large motor where I'd be able to have a wide enough power band(sweet spot) where a compromise would work well...I'd either end up where its geared for the lower speed acceleration for 25 and 35mph speed limits in town maybe just barely reaching 45mph max bike speed; and not even able to get up to the 50~60mph the bike could originally do with the 50cc and upgraded 80cc ICE...or....if I gear for the 55mph speed limit road my shop is on(which I have to drive daily) the eMotorbike will just have laughable performance in town where I would want to enjoy it more....but....I could fit two of the motors that are available to me(which will give me a nice power boost no matter how its geared) ..... so .....this is when I had the idea to look and see if there was any info about dual motors vs transmissions to also help with my gearing issue...which...led me to Ted's blog post and thus this thread....however....the new "Ted Dillard"(with only 49 posts) now very disappointingly wants to shut that discussion down? and I wish the old "teddillard"(who started this thread, and was very active here) would consider my idea that continues on his own plus directly is inline and exactly on-topic with this thread
    (maybe you guys just missed my first post because it was at the bottom of the page, and that dude with only 20posts and who hadn't posted here since 2016 started being weird?) ...or 'in my case' am I better reconsidering a trans?
    Last edited by T Rush; 03 April 2018 at 0823. Reason: ..and don't you want to hear the rest of the Duck joke?

  10. #189
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    Ultimately, your thread is not about transmissions, per se, its about your derby conversion.
    You either design your conversion around the chassis you have, or decide what you want to design and get the chassis that will be best for your design. That sums it up nicely.
    Current rides: '96 Honda Ohlins VFR, '03 Cannondale C440R, '03 Cannondale Cannibal, '06 Yamaha 450 Wolverine 4x4
    Current builds: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4354

  11. #190
    Senior Member Spaceweasel's Avatar
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    I'm not a big fan of shutting any thread down that hasn't become abusive. New people come in and have questions or insights. It's not like the collective braintrust came to one final decision on a math problem that doesn't need further elaboration. As with any discussion, you can always walk away for a bit if you don't want to participate. I have gotten up from a table and taken a stroll to the bar to wait for the tone or topic to drift more than once.

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