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Thread: Revenge of the Electric Car

              
   
   
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    Member 1320freek's Avatar
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    Revenge of the Electric Car

    I just discovered last night that "Revenge of the Electric Car" is on Netflix instant. I know it doesn't cover EV motorcycles but I thought it was pretty cool.

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    Old EV Racer EVcycle's Avatar
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    Now watch "Who killed the Electric car" and get the "rest of the story".
    EV Ed
    Never let being a responsible adult get in the way of passion and curiosity.
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    Member 1320freek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVcycle View Post
    Now watch "Who killed the Electric car" and get the "rest of the story".
    Unfortunately, that one is not on netflix instant but I put it in the Que today. Although I think it was Bob Lutz (who killed the electric car) and that's why I think this movie was pretty good. It's cool that he changed his views and ideas about EV's and pretty much went all in for the Volt. Just my opinion.

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    Senior Member EVGator's Avatar
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    I spent an entire night researching the EV1 and watching "Who killed the electric car". I ended up getting a few mixed emotions, (kinda sad and angry) and it made me want to build an ev even more so than before.

    The EV1 had like three times the range of the volt if I am not mistaken, (Volt advertises 40 miles per charge and still uses gas, EV1 had supposedly 120 miles per charge) with NiMH batteries. I can't believe that. Come on, you can't tell me that GM really cares anything about electric vehicles. It would hurt their sales anyway. It's common sense. Not to mention their oil buddies pockets. Now I am not sure how well the Leaf has done for Nissan sales wise, I haven't researched it. But in my opinion, it is going to take a start-up electric car company to really have successful electric vehicle large scale sales. With any other gas car company, it'd just be losing them money. Unless they sold so many vehicles that it made up for all of their gas car sales, and all of the dealership costs across the country including services such as oil changes, filters, tune ups, etc.

    Sorry, didn't mean to rant. I am just very passionate when it comes to this subject =p, as we all are.

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    Ghost Rider Allen_okc's Avatar
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    This is what Wikipedia has in its article about the EV1 - now if this doesnt sound like some big oil company got involved to kill the car, i dont know what does...

    and if you dont think that the government and big oil are sexing each to keep the profit going, then move to oklahoma and goto work for anyone of the oil monsters here, then come back and talk to me about what you think then...


    While customer reaction to the EV1 was positive, GM believed that electric cars occupied an unprofitable niche of the automobile market, and ending up crushing all their electric cars, regardless of protesting customers.[5] Furthermore, an alliance of the major automakers litigated the CARB regulation in court, resulting in a slackening of the ZEV stipulation, permitting the companies to produce super-low-emissions vehicles, natural gas vehicles, and hybrid cars in place of pure electrics. The EV1 program was subsequently discontinued in 2002, and all cars on the road were repossessed. Lessees were not given the option to purchase their cars from GM, which cited parts, service, and liability regulations.[1] The majority of the repossessed EV1s were crushed, and the rest delivered to museums and educational institutes with their electric powertrains deactivated, under the agreement that the cars were not to be reactivated and driven on the road.

    GM has never crushed or destroyed any auto they made simply because they were unprofitable, give me a break...
    Last edited by Allen_okc; 11 July 2012 at 0556.
    The Greatest thing about a EV, is the Song of the Terrain...

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    Ghost Rider Allen_okc's Avatar
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    This photo makes me very sick and very mad - crushed EV1's, crushed by the GM arse wipes...
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    The Greatest thing about a EV, is the Song of the Terrain...

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    Senior Member protomech's Avatar
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    EV1 was a very technically advanced car. Much like the original Insight, an extreme emphasis on light weight and good aerodynamics gave it a very reasonable range. Almost half the car's weight was taken up by a massive battery pack, an advanced lead acid which supposedly could be charged in 3 hours at first .. and later a nimh pack which doubled the useful range.

    Given the cost of NiMH batteries at the time, the EV1 likely would have to be sold for $60k+ (in 2000 dollars) for GM to break even. And a two seat body style, as Honda found out, is technically ideal but makes for very poor sales.

    I believe GM has already sold more Volts in 2012 alone than they could have ever sold units of the EV1. Sucks for the original leasees, and I think the wiser PR move would have been for GM to sell the cars at end-of-lease to the leasees with a no-support stipulation.

    GM isn't a charity though; they're in business to make money. The EV1 as a product would never have done that for them.

    In let's say 1999 GM could have produced a two seater 120 mile vehicle for $60k.

    In 2012-2013 you can buy a seven-seater Tesla Model S 40 kWh that will do 160 miles (maybe 140 EPA) for $60k (before tax credits) .. or a Twizy, MiEV, Leaf, Coda, etc for substantially less money.

    That's the real revenge of the electric car .. that they've evolved from lab prototypes and edge cases to cars that everyday people can own.
    2006 Suzuki GS500, sold
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    http://protomech.wordpress.com/

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    Ghost Rider Allen_okc's Avatar
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    you can clearly see how much money they made by crushing the EV1, especially when the lessee's wanted to purchase them...
    The Greatest thing about a EV, is the Song of the Terrain...

  10. #9
    Senior Member EVGator's Avatar
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    Yeah. Apparently a group of EV1 owners pulled their money together and offered a check of One Million Dollars to GM in order to keep their cars. GM denied it, and actually spent around $600 per EV1 that they crushed. So there were people that definitely wanted it and protested the crushing. But I guess not enough to actually stop GM from doing it.

    As far as Chevron and GM goes,

    "In 1950, Chevron then “Standard Oil” along with General Motors and Firestone were charged and convicted of criminal conspiracy for their part in the Great American streetcar scandal. The scandal included purchasing streetcar systems throughout the United States then dismantling and replacing them with buses, in order to increase their sales of petroleum, automobiles and tires." -EVA


    On a side note, has anyone been able to find NiMH batteries with a decent C-rate and being cost effective? Don't think I have ever seen a bike with a Panasonic or other brand NiMH system on it. I guess low C-rate being the cause of it.



    http://www.ev.com/ev-components-part...d-hostage.html
    http://www.ev.com/ev-news/green-glob...-ev-world.html


    Look familiar?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pa...estruction.gif

  11. #10
    Senior Member protomech's Avatar
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    The Honda Insight (and other Honda hybrids) were capable of a 15C discharge and 7.5C charge (6.5Ah cells, 100A discharge / 50A charge). Numbers may be different for later batteries, I recall they flipped back and forth between 6 Ah and 6.5 Ah cells for a while.

    Toyota Prius NiMH cells are capable of 20C discharge. Don't know the charge rate but it's likely high.

    Problem is these cells are difficult / impossible to obtain new and are quite heavy (40-60 Wh/kg for the entire assembly).
    2006 Suzuki GS500, sold
    2012 Zero S ZF9
    http://protomech.wordpress.com/

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