Power in Flux
Likes Likes:  18
Page 20 of 22 FirstFirst ... 101819202122 LastLast
Results 191 to 200 of 213

Thread: The ElMoto Dream Bike

              
   
   
  1. #191
    Senior Member Spaceweasel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    441
    Post Thanks / Like
    Allright, T Rush, now you got me thinking. Here's my "no cheat" plan:
    1)Take a Zero 13.0 plus power tank (range 90 miles @70mph) http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/
    2) beef up the subframe, split a 13.0 battery and power tank into panniers and a circuit to switch between packs (range ~ 180 miles). The battery weight of ~160lbs is well within the range of a passenger, so this shouldn't be an issue.
    3) add a single track trailer (also streamlined) with a third 13.0 battery and power tank. (range ~270 miles) http://pbmotorcycletrailer.com/singl...ycle-trailers/
    4) add streamlining. This should increase range by at least 100% at speed. (range ~540 miles) http://motorcyclecolorado.com/blog/t...-streamlining/
    5) Include 3 charge tanks @6kw each. This should allow you to charge the whole rig off 3 circuits in roughly 2 hours.

    500 miles at 70mph is just over 7 hours. Add 2 hours to charge/nap/caffeinate/drain your catheter and you can do ~1300 miles in a day. Minus the trailer and you would be looking at (360 miles in 5 hours + 2 hours charging) ~1200miles in 24 hours. Hmm, might not be worth it with the trailer...

  2. #192
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Iowa City, IA. USA
    Posts
    122
    Post Thanks / Like
    so sit on one of these for 14hrs a day?

    I don't know if I could do that if it was standing still in my living room, let alone moving at 70mph

    when I did my two week long 5000mile solo ride on my R1100RT, I was getting pretty settled in on that bike...and its a very comfortable bike, not a fancy feature-full bike, just very simple...but big seat(height adjustable), fantastic aerodynamics(mirrors block the wind from your hands, and adjustable windshield), heated grips, cabin heat(yes, you can change the vents from the oil cooler to ride in a bubble of warmer air), and a pretty quiet smooth ride on a large(but not huge) bike....like before I quit I could light and smoke a cig at 60mph...so on the way home, I had a really good run going(started riding at midnight, so if/when I stopped things would be still open and people would be out and active, and I could have gotten off and browsed the sights)....but then I realized I would do well over 1000miles if I made it all the way home that day, or if I detoured slightly I could stop at my Moms house but be just 50miles or so shy of 1000(so thought maybe I'd find a lap to do for an hour)....at 900miles I was never so glad to take that detour, and stayed at my Mom's for three days...so, just saying

    here are pictures of me/bike on that epic ride:
    early on a ferry crossing over to Nantucket, and during the last lag trying to make it 1200miles home in 24hrs
    IMG_1344.JPGIMG_1510.JPG



    but check this guy out on his Blackbird http://www.cbrxx.com/events-rides-ri...-complete.html
    July 14 - 1,519 miles
    July 15 - 1,510 miles
    July 16 - 1,521 miles
    July 17 - 1,515 miles
    July 18 - 1,526 miles
    July 19 - 1,518 miles
    July 20 - 1,527 miles

    TOTAL MILEAGE: 10,636 miles
    TOTAL TIME: 6 days, 23 hours, 28 minutes
    and yes; he did have to stop for refueling, tire changes, repairs, massage therapy, and all the things a human has to do to recharge/replace their personal battery(eat and poop)....but I think the secret was to ride as fast as possible, so you had time to do that stuff

    then someone riding a HD beat him, but just endlessly going around a big oval track...he was running the CBR1100XX in a huge loop on open highways thru California, Oregon, Nevada, and Utah
    Last edited by T Rush; 10 March 2018 at 0356.

  3. #193
    Senior Member Spaceweasel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    441
    Post Thanks / Like
    My longest was a 1,420 mile 26 hour run from Vegas to Wichita (construction routed me North up 93) on a Katana 600 when I was a much younger man. Wasn't fun through the cold night, and was I was stupid tired at the end. Should have stopped but there was a girl waiting for me...

    The problem with an electric bike is the speed/efficiency drop off coupled with the charge time. We are getting closer, but not there yet.

  4. #194
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Iowa City, IA. USA
    Posts
    122
    Post Thanks / Like
    yeah, I did my ride before I was 50yo(so in that photo, it was October and I had just turned 49, or was it 48?) now 4 or 5 years latter I don't think I could do it solo

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceweasel View Post
    ...The problem with an electric bike is the speed/efficiency drop off coupled with the charge time. We are getting closer, but not there yet.
    but thats why I say do battery changes, do them often, and rider swaps.....why make it too hard

  5. #195
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Iowa City, IA. USA
    Posts
    122
    Post Thanks / Like
    ok, since you posted your "Zero Cheat" here is my "hot swap"

    •R1100RT just because I have an extra one... tho it might be awesome to use my Blackbird(but I like the Honda's ICengine where its at, more than I do the BMW's with 90k miles on it) but something big, comfortable, and aerodynamic vs light, powerful, and quick ?
    •for the heck of it a bunch of fast charging Lithium Titanate batteries permanently inside it(100v 55ah from 5p*42s $2000 180lbs)
    •and efficient mid sized liquid cooled controller and motor using close ratio trans 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears to run different speeds(1st for wheelies, 5th for max highest speed)
    •then 4 sets of three piece luggage with 8 Nissan Leaf modules in each luggage bag(24 module load on bike for 100v 100ah 2p*4s in 3s bags 200lbs total)

    ...run that bike as fast as it will go and see how many miles you get
    then have the 3 remaining sets of luggage charged~charging ready for the next rider to take it out and see how fast/far they can go on a set

    see if a team can do that for 24hrs, or a week

    so maybe one rider goes 120mph(uses 5th gear) and lasts 30min and does 60miles, and the next rider cruses for an hour and 30min at 60mph(uses 3rd gear) for 90miles, then another rider and battery set does 100mph for an hour(uses 4th gear) gets 100miles, so then a guy wants to try 4th gear at 70mph...; or whatever until you mess around and find the most efficient using the maths, see who drained the batteries the least and was fastest/farthest....but having the transmission allows different final drive for different speeds which might help to be the most efficient?(still wondering about that, as I know transmissions aren't 'needed' in EV's) idk [but part of me feels it might be a 'compromise' with an EV bike not to have a trans, as I read where people fiddle trying to find the right final drive ratio to get their higher mph 'hp' without sacrificing too much low speed 'torque' and range...eh, guess parasitic losses in having a trans outweigh any gains of just not having the perfect sprockets for desired mph with direct drive ]

    its different than an all out super sport bike most of the ideas are about in this thread aimed at acceleration, but pretty cool data gathering bike


    if you get 48 modules out of a salvaged car, and wanted 4 sets of 24 modules(one set on the bike, two sets charging, and one ready to go); so that might be $5000(with two complete car packs at $2500 each) for 96(over 40kwh to play with on hand), and extra chargers(enough to output 300kwh a day?...oh, could you just camp at a public charge station?); as those being most of the special added costs to try this
    ...maybe different battery type permanently 'in' the bike, but something that charges as fast as possible(just has to be usable for short trips/boost/backup...as you have the 'battery bags' to add on for longer rides, so this bike still works for other things besides this)....you would need 6 off-board chargers(two sets of 3), then pretty much just all the regular stuff on-board the bike you need to do a conversion.....so this might not even cost a fortune, nor be that hard to do, or be that physically hard if you have riders taking turns

    *if you really wanted to "cheat", have your one charging station in the middle of a long stretch of road, then take one extra set of fully charged bags in a chase support vehicle....at the end of the bike's run as close to as far as it can go one way, the bike turns around to meet the support vehicle head on(no waiting) for a quick battery swap, then the bike is still heading back passed the charge station ... then so does the support vehicle, but it stops to drop off the old batteries and gets charged ones and heads after the bike again*
    ...that way the bike is always only less than half the way from the single charge/help/home base, no matter how far it goes without set range limit between two charge stations, so each run distance can vary as speed varies...without using a closed oval track....I guess that would effect "fuel" economy, and somewhat "mph" average speed/time; having to slow down u-turn, then stop again for refueling


    anyway
    when none of it works, or does; you can sell off the spare Leaf modules and chargers, just keep one set of 'battery bags' and move on with your life/next project and say you gave it a good go....and maybe, during a week long of testing(when you've found the optimal speed and final drive ratio); you just maybe set a new world record for an EV of over 1,500miles in 24hrs, and/or the 7 day mileage total
    ....ya know? as long as we are dreaming, make it a new dream
    [as someone already dreamed of the 218mph eMoto that beats everyone up Pikes Peak, and then even made it real too]
    Last edited by T Rush; 10 March 2018 at 0602. Reason: tried to make it easier to read I did

  6. Likes Stevo liked this post
  7. #196
    Senior Member Spaceweasel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    441
    Post Thanks / Like
    "Zero cheat" is a more clever name. I appreciate clever.

    Transmissions are an old fight club topic around here. The usual conversion plan of a transverse motor mated to a chain drive obviates the need for one, and the wide torque spread of electrics means we can mostly get around the necessity of using one with ICE. But any fixed gear ratio is a compromise...

    I still don't know that a record that only keeps the frame and motor convinces anyone of anything. You don't get to show anything about the efficiency of EVs, usability / durability / charging of batteries, ridability of the bike, or even endurance of the rider. I think that's my main problem with the swapping of batteries and riders. But, hell, I'd still take my turn at a shift.

  8. #197
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Iowa City, IA. USA
    Posts
    122
    Post Thanks / Like

    I thought and Googled about it somemore

    shaft drive with a trans is not the most efficient

    BMW's 'rated' weight limit for luggage is only under 20lbs per bag

    bigger taller bike will have more frontal area, no matter how aerodynamic

    bike doesnt have to be comfortable at all if you have to stop all the time to charge or swap rider/battery

    top cruising speed will be very important in getting the most miles in 24hrs(think the German Tesla was going about 80mph with 15min charge times)...but battery capacity and efficiency at that speed will matter too, in order to get the highest averaged speed over the total time
    ....as not only the time stopped; but number of times stopping will hurt once you consider power and time needed to get back up to that speed after each stop


    also tried harder to look up what has happened with the ev 24hour record
    ....most of the push in that record has been how far you can go in 24hours on a single charge; I think now its over 1100miles, held by a huge tour bus packed full of batteries.... but there were impressive numbers over the years done by super lite areo torpedo stream-liners, Zoe, Tesla, BMW, etc. cars
    ...most of them running under 30mph for highest EV efficiency, and where aerodynamics aren't that much of a concern



    anyway, here are some I found with EV total distance runs in 24hrs :


    2009 Zero Motorcycles 500miles in 24hrs of Electricross
    http://www.50cycles.com/blog/zero-mo.../#.WqYgiWrwbX4


    2012 electric motorcycle attempt(no idea what became of it, or what exact record he was going to try)
    https://gas2.org/2012/09/11/funding-...-world-record/


    2012 electric Holden Commodore did 1172 miles with battery switching about every 100 miles on oval track
    https://www.greencarreports.com/news...tery-switching


    2013 with 3 drivers taking turns in a van, 1273 miles using a semi-automated battery swapping concept
    https://insideevs.com/greenway-sets-...ble-ev-wvideo/


    still the last thing I find is the Tesla in Germany @ 1506miles in 2016
    https://evobsession.com/new-record-s...rman-autobahn/
    ...I guess that was done using fast Superchargers with 2 drivers, who took turns sleeping in a hotel at night ... and used autopilot 90% of the time
    i'd call that pretty weak or cheating

    [edit]
    oh, here is a new one for this year
    ELECTRIC MOTORCYCLE SET TO TAKE ON 24 HOURS OF LEMANS 2018
    http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4634
    [/edit]
    Last edited by T Rush; 12 March 2018 at 0011. Reason: don't know how many years I have left, but I'm gonna make them wild

  9. #198
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Iowa City, IA. USA
    Posts
    122
    Post Thanks / Like

    btw

    I think the highest mileage in 24hrs I can find was 3362 at Le Mans in 2010 by the Audi R15+ TDI

    meaning you would have to load up the new Tesla semi truck's trailer with enough fully charged Tesla Powerwalls to power it for 24hrs
    ...and have it flying at over 140mph without stopping to beat that
    (I would think you would cross a point where the more weight in batteries you loaded on, the less speed and range gain you would get...returns would diminish so much that you never could achieve 140mph and/or 3400miles)

    ~or~

    you could run a Lighting LS-218 at near max speed and only spend a total of 7hours on the charger(and getting stopped + back up to speed) with 17hrs @ 200mph..so like 34 half hour runs, with 33 stops in-between of only 12 min to charge?
    (for reference; a LS-218 can fully fast DC charge in 30min, and then takes about a mile to get up to speed, and can maintain a 'sport track pace' for around 50mile range ... so really can only do 200mph for less than 15min? so with 30min charge time on top of that, might eek out less than 66mph averaged)


    ~so while doing either of those things might be un-possible, thats to do like an amazing ~3400miles in 24hrs

    - shooting for 1700miles (using half of those requirements: 70mph averaged in 24hrs, or 34 half hour runs of 100mph ) might be approachable in this day and age
    Last edited by T Rush; 11 March 2018 at 2328. Reason: I edit everything I can

  10. #199
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    881
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by T Rush View Post
    so sit on one of these for 14hrs a day?

    I don't know if I could do that if it was standing still in my living room, let alone moving at 70mph
    Yeah. I would definitely want to do it in one of these. :-)

    https://electricmotorcycles.news/dis...n-motorcycles/

  11. Likes Spaceweasel liked this post
  12. #200
    Senior Member Spaceweasel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    441
    Post Thanks / Like
    5c072a752de36ff175cdc059edce499b.jpg

    55ah 420v Tesla drivetrain. Get it to run on the supercharger network and you've got it made!

    (BTW I think the estimate for a LS-218 being able to run 200 for 15min is wildly optimistic. I'd put the over/under at less than 5. Although full aero would probably help. )
    Last edited by Spaceweasel; 12 March 2018 at 1648.

Page 20 of 22 FirstFirst ... 101819202122 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •