Power in Flux
Likes Likes:  10
Page 8 of 18 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 177

Thread: The ElMoto Dream Bike

              
   
   
  1. #71
    Seņor Member podolefsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    3,889
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jonescg View Post
    The space isn't that different, but 600cc frames are definitely smaller (except the early 2000s GSXRs, they all shared the same frame). The difference is the thickness of the materials and the amount of meat in the corners, simply cause they are designed to support an extra 30 kg of tare weight.
    Same with early-mid 90's gixxers. Added weight of the 1000/1100 was in the motor, rear wheel/tire, beefier suspension, a few other things like hydraulic clutch. Sometimes the smaller displacement is just a smaller bore in the same block. I think this was the case for the gixxer 600/750. Lower power let them cut weight in other places.
    - Noah Podolefsky -
    The GSX-E

  2. #72
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    520
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by podolefsky View Post
    Same with early-mid 90's gixxers. Added weight of the 1000/1100 was in the motor, rear wheel/tire, beefier suspension, a few other things like hydraulic clutch. Sometimes the smaller displacement is just a smaller bore in the same block. I think this was the case for the gixxer 600/750. Lower power let them cut weight in other places.

    Yep, they cut weight in places, and run lighter suspension springs etc on the 600's vs the 1000's in most bikes.

    If you pick a chassis that is super light, and you do an electric conversion that turns out super light (hopefully right about the same weight), then your suspension is going to work well for you. If your conversion is going to weigh 100lbs more than the original gas bike the chassis was from, you're going to either just have suspension impossible to setup sag on correctly and it's going to handle like crap, or you spend a bunch of money on stiffer springs and possibly bigger brakes if you're an aggressive rider, and in the end you would have been much better off to just start with a chassis/suspension setup designed for carrying the amount of weight you're going to put on it.

  3. #73
    Seņor Member podolefsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    3,889
    Post Thanks / Like
    My 93 1100 weighed 509 dry. Converted, it's about 475. At first I thought the 1100 chassis was total overkill because my motor is only around 40 HP - the 1100 was about 150. But since the weight is close, and it's also distributed about the same, it handles really well. It would have been fine with a 750, probably a 600 too. Definitely not a 250.

    Ted's bike might only have 10 miles of range, but I'll bet if he put in enough to go 100 mi (or, say, climb a "mountain" as they call it out east), it would ride like a pig.
    - Noah Podolefsky -
    The GSX-E

  4. #74
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    520
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by podolefsky View Post
    Ted's bike might only have 10 miles of range,...
    ??? Whaaa?? Ted? 10miles?

  5. #75
    teddillard
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by liveforphysics View Post
    Absolutely. The idea to have best results is to pick a bike that will end up weighing about what it was originally designed to weigh.
    Right, exactly. And though I've always like the 600-sized bikes I saw that the R1 is only about 20lbs heavier than the R6, but gobs more HP. It wouldn't make sense IMO to buy an R6 for the weight savings, and I thought I read somewhere it was an identical frame. (Also, my SRX600 is only about 350lbs if I remember correctly, being a single. Only a wee bit heavier than my RD350, but same HP and TONS more torque. )

    Quote Originally Posted by liveforphysics View Post
    ??? Whaaa?? Ted? 10miles?
    lol yeah with (one of) the current pack(s). Remember when I trashed my pack and you told me to replace it? I rescued what I could and haven't put a new one together yet. I was able to climb Mt Washington (At an average grade of 12%, the Mount Washington Auto Road is steeper than Pikes Peak’s 7% and makes the same vertical climb of approximately 4700’, you west-coast mountain snobs you... lol) with what I have, though.



    It's an R5-RD350 frame, which originally was 325lbs. Right now with the "micro" pack it weighs about 225lbs, so I have about 100lbs of more room for the bigger packs. (remember, I have that modular pack switcheroo thing, with 2 module capacity). So about 100lbs before it is even back to stock weight, I figure about 150lbs before we get to "handling like a pig" range - thanks very much Noah ).

    If my math is correct, that's about 5 to 7kwh (of RC lipo) possible? I think I was aiming for 5kwh. The only thing that will go down is the acceleration, but I figure the top speed and 0-60 will be about the same as the original (modified) 350cc 2-stroke. With the frame loaded to original weight, I'm actually expecting it to handle a little better since the mods I made were all standard for the 325lb weight.

    Wait, huh. At 325lbs, maybe 100mph top speed, 0-60 in 5 sec or so and a 60mile range in a 1972 replica Yamaha TD3? I may already be building my dream bike...

    ...except it makes my ass look fat:

    Last edited by teddillard; 01 February 2013 at 0356.

  6. #76
    Senior Member protomech's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    215
    Post Thanks / Like
    They get oddly specific in their requirements : )
    http://mtwashingtonautoroad.com/driv...ehicle-limits/
    Jaguar, Saturn and Sterling autos with automatic transmissions must show a “1″ or “L” or “S” on the shifter to be allowed on the Auto Road. Transmissions showing an “S” must demonstrate that this shifter will allow the transmission to be locked into 1st gear. Model year 2009 and earlier Honda and Acura vehicles must meet the same requirements as described above. Model year 2010 Honda and Acura vehicles are all allowed regardless of transmission type.
    What do they have against Sterling automobiles, huh?
    2006 Suzuki GS500, sold
    2012 Zero S ZF9
    http://protomech.wordpress.com/

  7. #77
    Senior Member protomech's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by __Tango View Post
    Although i find this line of thought quite interesting, i don't actually think it's necessary for the dream bike thread. if you want faster charging, either put more powerful chargers on the bike or support CHADEMO. The Eltek 3000W charger is small enough, and Terry has shown that you can put multiple chargers on a bike to charger faster and faster.
    CHAdeMO and fast AC charging are both important. I HOPE in a couple of years that CHAdeMO and SAE J1772 DC have been sorted out, and that fast DC + J1772 level 2 7kW chargers are the norm.

    However, it's not enough IMO to just say CHAdeMO and done. Because shipping CHAdeMO chargers typically are limited to 100-125A, a 100V battery pack like on the 2013 Zero bikes can only charge at 10-12 kW, regardless of what rate the batteries can accept.

    Most J1772 plugs are 30A. So 7 kW AC is the best you can expect from them. That's not good enough to be a complete ICE replacement IMO - provides a full-loop trip mph of 30 mph or thereabouts: 1 hour @ 55-60 mph followed by an hour of charging.

    IME with gas vehicles and long trips, my average trip speed given 70 mph interstates (and limited speeding) is around 60 mph with some stops, or 65 mph with limited stops.

    At a on-road pace of 70 mph with 60 minutes of riding followed by 15 minutes of charging, your average speed is 56 mph. Over a 10 hour 600 mile trip with some stops this is around 30 minutes additional (+5% trip time): a very reasonable compromise vs ICE. 7 kW AC charging on the same aerodynamic bike would take around 21 hours, or 11 hours additional (+110% trip time). 600 miles with charging from CHAdeMO at a maximum rate of 10 kW would take around 17 hours, or 7 hours additional (+70% trip time).

    Note that while you get the fastest trip speeds by discharging at or near your charge rate, you get closer to ICE trip times as a percentage as the trip slows down. The same 600 mile trip @ 55 mph would take around 12h with ICE, or 12h20m with 34 kW CHAdeMO. 34 kW CHAdeMO is my target rate for freeway travel, but I think you could get away with 15-20 kW if you toured at 40-55 mph.

    I think you have to design for the charging infrastructure being rolled out - 30A (wall-side) J1772 and 100A (battery-side) CHAdeMO. To get ICE-like freeway touring speed you require large (10+ kWh) battery packs designed to accept high-rate CHAdeMO charging (20+ kW minimum IMO .. which means 200+V) coupled with and significant aero improvement. IMO.

    CHAdeMO is not sufficiently established in the US to permit touring, save on a very select number of routes. It's possible SAE J1772 DC will muddy the waters enough that CHAdeMO adoption is delayed. But for purposes of a dream bike.. I'd like to imagine that the infrastructure develops in a timely fashion.

    Speaking of which, Terry IS is proving you can do a "no electric unless i can charge in 5 minutes" crowd that you can indeed find enough power fast enough. He's got 5 (last i checked) chargers on his bike, so he can do 9kW/hr. Meaning he can effectively do a full charge in less than an hour (er...that was before he had the 747 sized new packs put on his bike). If terry moves away from the DeltaQ and Elcons to Elteks, he'd gain a bunch of space on his bike (for more batteries!).
    He has/had 8 kW of chargers on his bike, 3x Delta-Q @ 1 kW each + 2x Elcon 2.5 kW chargers. It's clearly good enough for a motivated individual to travel cross-country, but it's not good enough IMHO for a convenient 600 mile daily trip. I think most people will fly when a road trip exceeds a day in length, unless the journey is the reason for the trip.
    2006 Suzuki GS500, sold
    2012 Zero S ZF9
    http://protomech.wordpress.com/

  8. #78
    Senior Member Spaceweasel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    357
    Post Thanks / Like
    I like the idea of designing/building for the charging system that exists today. This thread isn't "the elmoto dream infrastructure" , if it were, I'd give Elon a call and have him grant us a license for supercharger connections.

  9. #79
    teddillard
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by protomech View Post
    They get oddly specific in their requirements : )
    http://mtwashingtonautoroad.com/driv...ehicle-limits/

    What do they have against Sterling automobiles, huh?
    ...not odd at all if you consider that the scary part is coming down.

  10. #80
    Senior Member mcf12's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    new orleans, la
    Posts
    265
    Post Thanks / Like

    My Social Networking

    Follow mcf12 On Twitter

    The ElMoto Dream Bike

    Hey Casey! So psyched you've been hanging out. Y'all are inspiring me and others here!

    Ted, Jonesy:

    To chime in on the voltage stuff: I build in a garage where as much as I try to avoid it, my kids wander around. I have a three year old who will climbing my bikes and likes to stick things in between other things. There's a fine line between dreaming of a bike people could build in a dedicated off site garage and a bike people could build in an actual garage. I'd rather lean to the later.

    Shout out to Casey and Ryan for thinking so carefully about making their kits accessible to basic garage context.

Page 8 of 18 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •