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Thread: Leaf or Volt batteries?

              
   
   
  1. #1
    Old EV Racer EVcycle's Avatar
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    Leaf or Volt batteries?

    Time to convert the old cafe racer to a newer battery setup.

    I have not seen a side by side comparison between the leaf and the volt battery. (if there is one please point me in that direction)

    Any info would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!

    EV Ed
    EV Ed
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  2. #2
    Senior Member DRZ400's Avatar
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    Well one thing to consider is the Volts are 45ah vs 62ah for the Leaf. You would likely have to run 2p on the Volts to get decent range (assuming your staying with same motor voltage)? And depending on your range requirements of course.....don't know the C rating for the Volts. The Leafs may be easier/cheaper to get due to the volume?
    Last edited by DRZ400; 11 August 2015 at 1628.
    2003 Ninja 250EX, Agni #95R, 6:1 Gearing, 11 Leaf Modules.
    Alltrax SPM72400, 400 amp Controller, all LED lighting
    2014 CRF450X Supermoto
    http://www.evalbum.com/1955
    http://www.evalbum.com/3337

  3. #3
    Old EV Racer EVcycle's Avatar
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    I have actually found the Volt Batteries to be cheaper at this time. (pound for pound, your mileage may vary)

    That may be due to the lesser AH rating. I would rather used Leaf batteries as we own two of the fun
    vehicles, but they seem to be in short supply at the moment...unless I am looking in the wrong place..
    EV Ed
    Never let being a responsible adult get in the way of passion and curiosity.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member DRZ400's Avatar
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    Hmmm... Spend 5.5k to upgrade one of your Leafs to the new Lizard cells. Keep 12 of your 2012 modules for yourself and sell off the other 36? Oh wait, I think you have to turn in the 2012 pack?
    2003 Ninja 250EX, Agni #95R, 6:1 Gearing, 11 Leaf Modules.
    Alltrax SPM72400, 400 amp Controller, all LED lighting
    2014 CRF450X Supermoto
    http://www.evalbum.com/1955
    http://www.evalbum.com/3337

  5. #5
    Old EV Racer EVcycle's Avatar
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    LOL....I wish!!!!
    EV Ed
    Never let being a responsible adult get in the way of passion and curiosity.
    Motenergy.com
    Ev album 2456, 2458, 2457, 2681, 3456, 3630

  6. #6
    Electric Warrior CaptainKlapton's Avatar
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    I've done some somewhat crude but reasonable calculations for both of these cells:

    Volt: @ 100A
    Rectangular_volume = 0.2375 L (single cell, no enclosure)
    Pavg = 342.31 W, Pmax = 383.1 W (at 100A constant to 0% SOC)
    Pavg_lim = 345.61 W (average to 3v cutoff)
    V_avg = 3.4231 v (100A constant)
    Current Limit DOD = 95.122% (SOC before 100A causes sag below 3v)
    S_Full = 50.011 Wh (energy output at 100A constant)
    S = 57.187 Wh (C/3)
    R_avg for a single cell is ~2.9 mOhm.


    LEAF: @ 100A

    Rectangular_volume = 0.59052 L (single cell, no enclosure)
    Pavg = 355.79W, Pmax = 388.4 W (at 100A constant to 0% SOC)
    Pavg_lim = 357.87 W (average to 3v cutoff)
    Vavg = 3.5579 v (100A constant)
    Current Limit DOD = 97.222% (SOC before 100A causes sag below 3v)
    S_Full =95.717 Wh (energy output at 100A constant)
    S = 107.48 Wh (C/3)
    R_avg for a single cell is ~2.4 mOhm.

    It should be noted that the Volt cells can tolerate slightly lower voltages than the LEAF cells, based on their chemistry at least, so you could run a cutoff closer to 2.5v/cell rather than 3v/cell.

    I've been trying to decide between the two myself... It really comes down to what fits and is convenient. In terms of modularity, the LEAF cells win hands down assuming that a multiple of 2S2P (~67Ah) will work. The volt cells are in a 8S3P or 12S3P arraignment depending on which module you buy. The 3P sets are welded to the tabs so then you have to work with a multiple of 3P (~45AH). Separating the volt cells is more of a pain than the LEAF cells because each 3P set has its own frame, pair of metal coolant plates and foam pads.

    Again, it comes down to what fits and how much work you are willing to put into making it work if the cells require a rearrangement.
    "Never let schooling interfere with your education."
    -Mark Twain

  7. #7
    Old EV Racer EVcycle's Avatar
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    Thank you for all the great info!

    I can fit 2 of the 12 cell Volt setups and lose 40 LBS off the bike. I think the BMS will be the next decision.

    I am looking for a charger only BMS setup.
    Last edited by EVcycle; 15 August 2015 at 0518.
    EV Ed
    Never let being a responsible adult get in the way of passion and curiosity.
    Motenergy.com
    Ev album 2456, 2458, 2457, 2681, 3456, 3630

  8. #8
    Senior Member DRZ400's Avatar
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    Ed, I've got about 20 cycles on my 11 Leaf modules so far....Only charging to 90v and not discharging more than 50ah since I have no BMS (avoiding the cliffs). So far the modules ALL remain within .010v of each other. True I loose some range...however its probably better for the battery's health to operate this way.
    2003 Ninja 250EX, Agni #95R, 6:1 Gearing, 11 Leaf Modules.
    Alltrax SPM72400, 400 amp Controller, all LED lighting
    2014 CRF450X Supermoto
    http://www.evalbum.com/1955
    http://www.evalbum.com/3337

  9. #9
    Old EV Racer EVcycle's Avatar
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    Outstanding info, thanks. Are you doing bulk charging at this time?

    Due to the smaller sized older bike, I opted for 2 - 48 volt 45Ah Volt battery modules. I expect a weight loss on the bike of up to 50 lbs.
    I have only 40AH on it now so the 5 extra AH and the less weigh should help with range. I only work 9 miles away from work anyway.
    The bike is very efficient and with the headway's I use only 1AH per mile on a bad day.
    Yesterday I used 13.5 AH in 15.5 miles.

    I will weight everything that comes off and goes back on to see where that comes out. The bike weights 366 lbs now.

    More later!
    Last edited by EVcycle; 12 August 2015 at 1524.
    EV Ed
    Never let being a responsible adult get in the way of passion and curiosity.
    Motenergy.com
    Ev album 2456, 2458, 2457, 2681, 3456, 3630

  10. #10
    Senior Member DRZ400's Avatar
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    Great, my work is about the same. That's less then an AH per mile....what's your voltage? Yes, I charge to 90v, 6amps. Use a EMC-600 from BMS battery.
    Last edited by DRZ400; 12 August 2015 at 1607.
    2003 Ninja 250EX, Agni #95R, 6:1 Gearing, 11 Leaf Modules.
    Alltrax SPM72400, 400 amp Controller, all LED lighting
    2014 CRF450X Supermoto
    http://www.evalbum.com/1955
    http://www.evalbum.com/3337

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