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Thread: 78 Honda CB550

              
   
   
  1. #1
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    78 Honda CB550

    So here is the project bike. image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

    So here is what i am aiming fir with this conversion, and feel free to comment on if i'm nuts or if it doable.
    1) range 50miles
    2) wall charger with 8 hour or less charging time
    3) $3000 max for electrical components (or less)
    4) cafe racer style
    5) Reliability and ease of maintenance

    So thats what i want at the end. I am currently in the process of buying a house and within the next two months will have a place where i can work on it. I am in Ny so i have quite a bit of time before i can even test ride anything. Im in the info gathering stage and willing to take any info someone is willing to give. I am open to lipo technology. I am a automotive technician and i am very had with fabrication. I will be moving only minutes from a scrap yard so i would like to make as much as possible. So what i am looking to get through this web site would be the components required. I know some of the basics but not the specifics of wiring and battery maintenance.

    So what are the suggestions for the electrical gear?
    Thanks for you input, adam.

  2. #2
    Old EV Racer EVcycle's Avatar
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    Welcome to the group.

    $3000 may be doable if you do the work yourself and purchase some of the parts used. I recommend new batteries and trusted sources for used parts.

    There are a few here that have built projects using a similar frame. We built one of these a few years ago so as well.

    You will get different opinions on motors as folks have their favorite type. For your budget the Motenergy line would be one to look at.

    Do your research and ask questions. Lots of educated folks here.


    Ed
    Last edited by EVcycle; 18 October 2013 at 0134.
    EV Ed
    Never let being a responsible adult get in the way of passion and curiosity.
    Motenergy.com
    Ev album 2456, 2458, 2457, 2681, 3456, 3630

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    Thanks for replying to my post ED. I took some time and checked out your website. Awesome stuff! I like the thought of e-dragsters, especially since where i will be moving to has a drag strip about 10 min away. But the work you did on the cafe racer is great. I love the look with all the fairings. I saw you are moving more towards the racing side with it but before that what was range on it? I do plan to do a tear down to an empty fame and rebuild from there.

    Two questions that have come in mind are probably pretty heated questions:
    Brushless or Permanent Magnet motor? I know cost leans toward PMM but it seems that there is only a small gap price wise and the performance difference is huge. I was an avid R/C goer and the difference in just the little motors was huge.
    The next is LiPo vs Lead Acid batteries? Again prices points towards Lead Acid but that again has started to change with major performance improvements.

    I like the idea of $3k being the goal but i would be willing to step up the budget if i can get better performance and reliability without breaking the bank. I am also patient and willing to save up before making the big purchases.

  5. #4
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    Re: 78 Honda CB550

    Lithium batteries for sure unless your target speed is 15mph for your range goal. You didn't list any performance goals but a series DC
    is usually the best bang for the buck and with a higher output controller can give snappy acceleration. Everything works together though so it's best to be as clear as possible up front about your goals. If this is a commuting machine then don't design in range you won't use or don't really need. If you live 5 miles from work then lead acid batteries may be perfectly acceptable.





    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

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    Re: 78 Honda CB550

    I also meant to add that you can probably sell some of the ICE components to increase your budget. I don't know about the 550's but a good 4 into 1 exhaust for a 750 is worth a small fortune.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

  7. #6
    Old EV Racer EVcycle's Avatar
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    In the long run Lithium will cost far less due to the longer lifespan and distant you will get from them. They are also much lighter.

    Since I have only run brushed motors in this size, I will let some of the others that have run BOTH answer that.
    EV Ed
    Never let being a responsible adult get in the way of passion and curiosity.
    Motenergy.com
    Ev album 2456, 2458, 2457, 2681, 3456, 3630

  8. #7
    Seņor Member podolefsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theovanni View Post
    Two questions that have come in mind are probably pretty heated questions:
    Brushless or Permanent Magnet motor? I know cost leans toward PMM but it seems that there is only a small gap price wise and the performance difference is huge. I was an avid R/C goer and the difference in just the little motors was huge.
    The next is LiPo vs Lead Acid batteries? Again prices points towards Lead Acid but that again has started to change with major performance improvements.

    I like the idea of $3k being the goal but i would be willing to step up the budget if i can get better performance and reliability without breaking the bank. I am also patient and willing to save up before making the big purchases.
    Hi Theovanni, welcome to elmoto. Cool bike!

    If you compare a Motenergy brushed vs brushless PM motor, you won't find a huge performance difference, at least as far as power and torque. You will find a huge price difference, both in the motors and controllers. A brushed ME1003, Alltrax 7245 kit, including the contactor, is about $1050. That's probably the best performance / $$ out there. An ME0709 kit is a little less. Also very good, just less current handling, so less torque. Same top speed though. Brushless equivalents are over $2000.

    Series motors are OK. I started with one, but if you're on a budget I'd recommend a brushed PM motor. In the same price range, efficiency is better, performance is similar or better.

    I think you might be confusing lithium with lipo. Lipo is a particular kind of lithium battery - what you probably used in RC. Some folks use RC lipo, but it's complicated and you need to do lots of reading and planning before building a large RC lipo pack. Most people here use cells like Headway, CALB, or GBS. Those aren't lipo, but they are lithium. Unfortunately, a lithium battery that gives you 50 mi range is going to cost over $3000 alone. Lead acid would be less, but you'll never fit enough lead battery on your bike to get that range.

    All that said, don't despair! There are some nice builds on here that were under $4k, and $3k isn't impossible. You might just need to dial back some of your expectations.
    - Noah Podolefsky -
    The GSX-E

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    Thanks for the advise so far guys.
    Frank: as far as performance is concerned I'm not looking for neck snapping acceleration but something with some zip is always nice! And I do plan to sell the ICE parts once i start the project. I plan to get the ICE running so that i get familiar with the bike and i am able to practice riding before i get my license.
    Ed: Thanks for the info on Li batts
    podolefsky: Thanks! As long as there isn't any compatibility issues with LI batts and pm motors and the performance is the same, obviously the more budget friendly the better. And In regard to my LiPo lingo, I do know there are a bunch of different types like Life, and such just to used to using LiPo as a generic term. I will work on correcting that.

    The subject of the purpose of my bike seems to be a good question. I live kinda in the boonies. My work place is 15m one way. I also frequent a town that's 29m away. I think that i may have to plan my trips there a bit more if i want to take the bike. I want the ability to ride back and forth to work without recharge just in case i cant charge at work. I think that I would like to start out with the goal of getting back and forth to work with out charge and goal #1. I can always look to improve at a later date.

  11. #9
    Senior Member EV_Scoot's Avatar
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    Theovanni ,

    As I was asking in another thread, it's good to have 20% at the end of your desired journey, so aim for that.

  12. #10
    Seņor Member podolefsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theovanni View Post
    podolefsky: Thanks! As long as there isn't any compatibility issues with LI batts and pm motors and the performance is the same, obviously the more budget friendly the better. And In regard to my LiPo lingo, I do know there are a bunch of different types like Life, and such just to used to using LiPo as a generic term. I will work on correcting that.
    No worries on lingo. Just getting things straight, since if you say lipo people will think you mean something specific.

    There are no compatibility issues. Motors are agnostic to where the electrons come from. But, they do need to match voltage and keep up on current. If you have a motor that will draw 150A, or 600A, your battery needs to be able to supply it.

    Oh, and just call me Noah
    - Noah Podolefsky -
    The GSX-E

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