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Thread: Full size electric mc with functional pedals

              
   
   
  1. #11
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    OK, maybe the IWOT comment was a little harsh. As I'm struggling to get as much range as possible out of the motorcycles I'm designing and building, the thought of trying to accommodate somebody's exercise program at the same time just gives me a headache. I know, I know your going to say: but you can get more range with the pedals! Maybe so, but maybe the more upright riding position creates more drag and less range. Hey! there's your next project: a feet forward, recumbent motorcycle with pedals.

    I think MTJF's point is that this is one of those Kids: don't do this at home (on the bike paths) moments. It would be a sad day (and actually is in some places) if electric bicycle were banned from bike paths and other places because of a few inconsiderate people.
    Last edited by Electro Flyers; 07 January 2015 at 2108.

  2. #12
    Junior Member MidTNJasonF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electro Flyers View Post

    I think MTJF's point is that this is one of those Kids: don't do this at home (on the bike paths) moments. It would be a sad day (and actually is in some places) if electric bicycle were banned from bike paths and other places because of an inconsiderate few people.

    Yes and I also wrap up some usefulness into the equation. If you build a trick full suspension mountain bike with a 5kw motor and a 144v battery pack that is capable of running 50mph you will want to ride it.

    It may be an amazing build. It may be full of technology and cool features. It may impress many people but you will want to ride it and to do that you have to have a place to ride it.

    If you take it onto traditional mountain bike trails you will piss off the non powered peddle bikers, the hikers, and the trail runners who use the trails. Leading to unwanted attention and increased restriction from the groups that oversee the trail use.

    If you take it on public greenways and bike paths again you will piss off the peddle bikers, the walkers, the joggers, and the moms pushing strollers. Leading to unwanted attention and increased restriction from the groups/governments that oversee the greenway use.

    If you take it on public roads with bike paths you will piss off the peddle bikers using them, the cars drivers you are passing in traffic, and draw the attention of law enforcement or other authorities . Leading to unwanted attention and increased restriction from the groups/governments that oversee the road/path use.

    If you ride it on the roadways as will piss off the the cars drivers not willing to share the road with a lesser vehicle like a bike since you "shouldbe" in the bike lane. You will also draw the attention of law enforcement or other authorities . Leading to unwanted attention and increased restriction from the groups/governments that oversee the road use.

    Are you sensing a theme here?

    Now the original posters motorcycle is not what I am talking about. It is outside the scope of a bike and it is registered and operated as a motorcycle as he stated. It would be viewed as a novelty by the casual observer, "look someone put pedals on their motorcycle". Most would think it different, strange, or brilliant but almost no one would find it intrusive, offensive, or inappropriate.

    This is the primary reason I sold the go kart I built with a cbr600 motor on it. It was fun to build sure but there was no where to ride it. It was a novelty. I could not drive it on the street without attracting attention from johnny law or my neighbors. I could not take it to the track since the sanctioning body that operated it did not view it as safe and had no class to allow it to run in. I do not have private land with paved area I could run it on. I did not have the spare thousands of dollars it would take to rent a facility when I wanted to drive it. All this added up to a cool as hell but utterly useless go kart.

    If you have a hundred acres of undeveloped rural land that you have cut some fun trails on than maybe one of the over the top high powered ebikes makes a bit more sense. I would argue that a Zero or other eDirtbike would make more sense but that is a matter of opinion.
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  3. #13
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    MidTNJasonF,

    "It may be full of technology and cool features. It may impress many people but you will want to ride it and to do that you have to have a place to ride it."

    It isn't just overpowered bicycles that cause problems.

    http://insideevs.com/3-dead-in-toyot...llision-video/

    http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-p...ng-know-video/

    These things have no earthly use for that kind of power, other than to stroke the egos of sociopaths.

  4. #14
    Senior Member DRZ400's Avatar
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    Cool enginuity....but who would want to pedal a 450lb bike???
    2003 Ninja 250EX, Agni #95R, 6:1 Gearing, 11 Leaf Modules.
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  5. #15
    Junior Member MidTNJasonF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren View Post
    MidTNJasonF,

    "It may be full of technology and cool features. It may impress many people but you will want to ride it and to do that you have to have a place to ride it."

    It isn't just overpowered bicycles that cause problems.

    http://insideevs.com/3-dead-in-toyot...llision-video/

    http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-p...ng-know-video/

    These things have no earthly use for that kind of power, other than to stroke the egos of sociopaths.
    That argument could be made however the Tesla S is legal to purchase, license, and operate on legal roadways. If one makes the choice to break road use laws in a Tesla S they are no different than the person who chooses to break the law in a powerful Corvette ZO6. There is certainly a decent size segment of the population that would be perfectly happy placing limits on the power output and performance of vehicles sold and licensed for street use. So far that segment of the population has had very limited success in achieving that.

    Taking a Bicycle converted and powered by a powerful electric motor on a greenway, path, or trail designed for non motorized vehicles and foot traffic is skirting the intent of the law/rule or in some cases where restrictions are already in place flat out breaking those rules.

    So how do we allow for overpowered cars and still have safe roadways? We regulate their use and not their creation through driving laws like speed limits and we pay for the enforcement of those regulations through our taxes, registration fees, and violation citation fees.

    Do you want to have to pay registration for your bicycle (even human powered pedal bikes)? Do you want a paid policing force on the trails and greenways of your local area enforcing regulations?

    In my opinion if you have overpowered eBikes using resources designed for human powered transport that is the only real long term outcome. You either ban powered bicycles from public use or you regulate use and enforce the regulations. Neither is good for bicycle riders, electric powered or otherwise. There is a place for eBikes that travel at or near the speed of a human powered bike. I think there is much less room in the public world for eBikes that can travel 40+mph. I am not anti eBike, I really want to ride one of these power monsters. I am concerned with intelligent and responsible use of eBikes however.

    At this time it is really up to the bicycle and eBike communities to self regulate although there are already some cities and states stepping in and passing regulations. If we don't self regulate as a community eventually some outside group will.
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  6. #16
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    MidTNJasonF,

    I have already said I think they have a place on the road as registered mopeds, with brake and turn signals, and MC helmets.

    As you mentioned, these folks are breaking the rules by riding at high speeds on bike paths. Beyond bike paths, I am not a fan of bicycles in the wilderness at all, powered or not. And they are breaking federal law by powering them past 28 mph on the road. So if there ever gets to be more than a handful, they will be caught and prosecuted, just like car drivers.

    I think bicycle registration is fine, if it would give bicyclists some enforced rights on the road.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRZ400 View Post
    Cool enginuity....but who would want to pedal a 450lb bike???
    The distinction is that you are not pedaling the bike, you are extending the range thru pedaling with the added benefit of getting exercise while commuting. You could never simply pedal the bike anywhere. Pedaling is completely optional by the way. The bicycle components run thru two freewheels (for safety) so the pedals can be used as foot pegs if so desired.

    It so happens that I was looking at your evalbum pages the other days. How is the agni motor holding up? Are you happy with it? Thanks

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidTNJasonF View Post
    Yes and I also wrap up some usefulness into the equation. If you build a trick full suspension mountain bike with a 5kw motor and a 144v battery pack that is capable of running 50mph you will want to ride it.

    It may be an amazing build. It may be full of technology and cool features. It may impress many people but you will want to ride it and to do that you have to have a place to ride it.
    I agree and how cool would be to build something like this! But….where I live, motorized vehicles, both gas and electric, have always been banned from the Bike Paths with the only exception being electric mobility scooters. Signage is posted along the (small) network of paths which warns of very stiff penalties for motorized transport. Ebikes are allowed to ride on the street up to 20 mph and up to 30 mph with proper lighting signals etc and a dot helmet. I could have been satisfied with the 30 mph scenario, but the road to the mainland is posted at 50 mph so I went the Electric Motorcycle with pedal assist route instead.

  9. #19
    Senior Member DRZ400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Modified View Post
    The distinction is that you are not pedaling the bike, you are extending the range thru pedaling with the added benefit of getting exercise while commuting. You could never simply pedal the bike anywhere. Pedaling is completely optional by the way. The bicycle components run thru two freewheels (for safety) so the pedals can be used as foot pegs if so desired.

    It so happens that I was looking at your evalbum pages the other days. How is the agni motor holding up? Are you happy with it? Thanks
    Very happy with the Agni. I had the MARS 09 motor first. The Agni pulls harder and is about 10lbs lighter. Right now my Calb 40AH cells and Kelly 400 Amp (more like 250) are the limiting factor. With a stronger controller and LEAF batteries I could see what the Agni really has.
    2003 Ninja 250EX, Agni #95R, 6:1 Gearing, 11 Leaf Modules.
    Alltrax SPM72400, 400 amp Controller, all LED lighting
    2014 CRF450X Supermoto
    http://www.evalbum.com/1955
    http://www.evalbum.com/3337

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