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Thread: AC-23 or new oil cooled motors from HPEVs?

              
   
   
  1. #11
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlon View Post
    BTW , i'm almost done with some PM motors for the new Curtis E with PM firmware power size will be 25 -35- 44kw continous S1

    Make sure you start a thread on this!!





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  2. #12
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    Athlon's water evap system would weigh a whole lot less than an oil cooling sytem with pump, plumbing, heat exchanger, and oil reservoir. Also less space used.
    I would test that idea first before swapping out motors Hughes... and your wife would be happier
    Original build: http://vorworxemc.wix.com/vorworx
    Current rides: '96 Honda Ohlins VFR, '03 Cannondale C440R, '03 Cannondale Cannibal, '06 Yamaha 450 Wolverine 4x4

  3. #13
    Member robermelendez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlon View Post
    since your porblem are the mountain I still think that a small hiddend distilled water spry evaporative coling can really solve your problem.
    Water evaporation can really take away huge amount of heat , less than a soda can can keep your motor cool for lot of time , all you need is a wiper water pump a spry nozzle nothing more.
    this spray idea is pretty cool... i have heard of similar tricks used to prevent buses drumbrakes from overheating (pretty sketchy deal on brakes... but motor might be fine)

    Athlon, do you have any documentation (pictures, data etc) of this system?

    Cheers

  4. #14
    Seņor Member podolefsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugues View Post
    does the ac-23 run hotter than ac-20 ?

    do you think i have any tangible benefits to upgrade to an ac-23 if i keep my current controller and 96 volts ? Or i need the new controller as well AND higher voltage (which could be a big job) ?

    If you're not changing your controller and pack, stick with the AC-20.
    - Noah Podolefsky -
    The GSX-E

  5. #15
    Senior Member Athlon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robermelendez View Post
    this spray idea is pretty cool... i have heard of similar tricks used to prevent buses drumbrakes from overheating (pretty sketchy deal on brakes... but motor might be fine)

    Athlon, do you have any documentation (pictures, data etc) of this system?

    Cheers
    on brake is used only in racing because for safety reason bake of road legal car cannot change performace over time
    You can see a lot of steam coming out from the fron wheel in truck racing

    I used it on my converted R4 for my travel from Italy to Dakar
    http://www.electricmotornews.com/vei...auto-elettrica

    but the most important voice is for sure Farfle
    http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...hp?f=2&t=51247
    https://www.facebook.com/TeamFarfleRacing

  6. #16
    Senior Member DRZ400's Avatar
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    Hello! Where can I find this spreadsheet? Thx Phil

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugues View Post
    Actually, using peak torque graphs, which i think is a correct assumption for regular street riding with occasional peak demand, i plugged in the torque in the EV_Super_Estimator spreadsheet to compare acceleration of both motor. That gives in my case (6.29 ratio, 805 total weight):

    Top speed AC-20 time sec AC-23 time sec
    0-30 mph 2.3 1.7
    0-50 mph 4.1 3.4
    0-60 mph 5.1 4.8

    So yeah, not as much as I expected on the 0-60 time. Although it is not often i really go full blast to 60 mph form a dead stop. I would more go to 50 mph from a dead stop, and here i gain almost a second, probably enough to justify bragging rights . Claiming in excess of 1'000 Nm on the wheel has also some appeal i must say LOL. The 0 to 30 mph figure surely shows the bike would feel more responsive from a dead start, which i feel is lacking today.

    For heavy street riding or riding uphill, which i encounter each time i go back home, need to look at continuous graph. Here, i'm a little worried, the vented fan cooled graph are really different as to peak torque. The AC-20 allows 130 ft.lbs up to 4000 rpm whereas the AC-23 allows only 70 to 80 ft.lbs. This is pretty much the show stopper for me as today my fan cooled AC-20 would start to de-rate (Curtis protection kicking in at high temp) if i ride heavy and then go up hill for a while. The AC-23 would then probably de-rate much faster unless i reduce my demand sharply, which i cannot do that much while going uphill.

    Too bad, the fun lasted only 12 hours.
    2003 Ninja 250EX, Agni #95R, 6:1 Gearing, 11 Leaf Modules.
    Alltrax SPM72400, 400 amp Controller, all LED lighting
    2014 CRF450X Supermoto
    http://www.evalbum.com/1955
    http://www.evalbum.com/3337

  7. #17
    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlon View Post
    on brake is used only in racing because for safety reason bake of road legal car cannot change performace over time
    You can see a lot of steam coming out from the fron wheel in truck racing

    I used it on my converted R4 for my travel from Italy to Dakar
    http://www.electricmotornews.com/vei...auto-elettrica

    but the most important voice is for sure Farfle
    http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...hp?f=2&t=51247
    https://www.facebook.com/TeamFarfleRacing
    Interesting, I did not know you were spraying water inside, I thought on the outside.

    As the forum post said, be careful not to spray too much and wet your tire as it happened to them and crashed.

    Anyone reported on the impact of having water on the steel inside the motor ? Any risk of rust ? I guess if you stop your system when finishing to ride, the residual heat will dry up your motor .

    I might give it a try if my 3D printed heatsink is not sufficient.
    Last edited by Hugues; 28 July 2015 at 0505.
    Regards from Switzerland
    My 2.5 Upgrade Thread

  8. #18
    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRZ400 View Post
    Hello! Where can I find this spreadsheet? Thx Phil
    The first link in this thread still works:http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=9...ll=1#post27644

    although i realize i'm using a different one, attached to this post below, but i'm not the creator of this file. Just change the figures in yellow cells on top first to match your data, then in the torque column in yellow, input the torque of your motor for the rpm given on that line. Pay attention that when you change some of the parameters on top of the file, the rpm values below change, so enter your torque values at the end only.


    EV_Super_Estimator for e-cruiser 2.0 96V torque curve.xlsx.zip
    Last edited by Hugues; 28 July 2015 at 0503.
    Regards from Switzerland
    My 2.5 Upgrade Thread

  9. #19
    Senior Member DRZ400's Avatar
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    Thx!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugues View Post
    The first link in this thread still works:http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=9...ll=1#post27644

    although i realize i'm using a different one, attached to this post below, but i'm not the creator of this file. Just change the figures in yellow cells on top first to match your data, then in the torque column in yellow, input the torque of your motor for the rpm given on that line. Pay attention that when you change some of the parameters on top of the file, the rpm values below change, so enter your torque values at the end only.


    EV_Super_Estimator for e-cruiser 2.0 96V torque curve.xlsx.zip
    2003 Ninja 250EX, Agni #95R, 6:1 Gearing, 11 Leaf Modules.
    Alltrax SPM72400, 400 amp Controller, all LED lighting
    2014 CRF450X Supermoto
    http://www.evalbum.com/1955
    http://www.evalbum.com/3337

  10. #20
    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Finally decided to upgrade my AC-20 to AC-23, took some time to sort out the installation, did stupid stuff in the process (like frying my controller),

    But today was my first real ride with the AC-23, i don't regret it, it's quite punchy at low rpm, that's below 80 km/h for me, i'm geared 7.04:1,

    AC-23 starts at 173 N-m at 0 rpm, so i've got 1'218 N-m right off the bat. I haven't pushed it hard so far, starting slowly, but it's quite impressive, had to tune down my throttle sensitivity and engine break to avoid locking the wheel.

    Runs a little hotter than my AC-20, but i've got 3 fans to take care of this, should be enough.

    Wish i can find a track to measure 0-60 acceleration and post some data.

    new bike.jpg
    Regards from Switzerland
    My 2.5 Upgrade Thread

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