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Thread: First E-Moto project underway '10 Zero S rebuild

              
   
   
  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck-Stew View Post
    Attachment 7233

    Attachment 7234

    Ok, give it to me straight: Is this Agni 95R any good?
    It's a good small brushed PMC motor. Great power to weight, but I'd be weary of expecting it to reliably do highway speeds without requiring annoying cooling methods.

    All the benefits of a good power to weight motor are quickly negated at the upper limits because it might require active cooling, which adds weight through hardware/fans and more batteries to run that.

    Here's someone who had either an Agni or Lynch motor (which are nearly the same) and ended up having to do a ducted fan cooled setup to keep the motor happy:
    http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...-80380p20.html

    If I were in your shoes, I've come to really appreciate the simplicity of simply having a motor with enough thermal mass and passive cooling to handle your power needs (especially for hills) without ever having to worry. I might get some people who disagree, but I think a single Agni95 motor is more appropriately sized for a low speed geared dirt-bike than a (continuous) highway capable motorcycle.

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  3. #22
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    I see what you're saying. Recommendations for a highway capable motor?
    '10 Zero S project

  4. #23
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    http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev...r-24-120v.html

    http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/mote...brushless.html

    These look identical. Thoughts on why one is rated to a different output than the other?
    '10 Zero S project

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck-Stew View Post
    http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev...r-24-120v.html

    http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/mote...brushless.html



    These look identical. Thoughts on why one is rated to a different output than the other?
    I think they are identical. The expensive one claims a 6500RPM, 120V limit vs. 5000RPM, 96V limit for the other one. I don't know justifies the huge difference in price! It could be the higher RPM motor has the armature wrapped with a tension band to keep the armature together at the higher RPMs. AIR the Agni 95R has this as an option? The R stands for reinforced?
    Last edited by Electro Flyers; 13 December 2016 at 2143.

  6. #25
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    I'm not sure what they difference is between those motors... I wish they would describe what's physically different about it. They both have the same torque constant and max recommended rotor speed. Also, I found this info:
    http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=33780
    "Would like to share my latest project, electric kart with DLC-28 and my 72600 controller, packed with 22s 40ah MNC batteries.
    The goal was for 60hp, utilize every last drop of what DLC-28 could offer, but as I took the motor apart, it is somewhat disappointing, the wires they use for motor winding is not rated up to their spec. sheet, so I try to keep the phase amp down to keep the motor cool."

    It would still be better than the air-cooled version, but that's a lot of complexity with cooling pumps/fans. I'd personally just opt for an AC-20 3-phase setup. I've since swapped my ME1003 to a AC-20 using the stock integrated cooling fan on it to power my ~1200 lb Sandrail (with rider). I routinely cruise 45-50 mph pulling 125-150A with intermittent bursts of max AMP acceleration from my 650A controller at 103v nominal. It hasn't gone into thermal protection even with a 2nd passenger. I'd be confident that the motor would be excellent in a mid-sized Motorcycle for spirited driving and highway speeds with occasional short uphill pulls. it's a bit long for a motor though. It's powerful enough to pull my vehicle up to 70 mph with nice acceleration using a single gear. I haven't even bothered liquid cooling the controller either. It's pretty stout as-is if you're not track racing it.

  7. #26
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    Alas, an AC20 won't fit in a Zero frame. Well, not without doing modifications that I'm unwilling to do.

    Shame the go-kart with the DLC hasn't posted up in a while...
    '10 Zero S project

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck-Stew View Post
    Alas, an AC20 won't fit in a Zero frame. Well, not without doing modifications that I'm unwilling to do.

    Shame the go-kart with the DLC hasn't posted up in a while...

    I think it's always helpful to post comparative builds. This is an ultra-light, clearly low speed geared go-kart with a brushed Motenergy motor:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjA4AQ-v5w

    It's actually similar to the brushless liquid ones were were discussing earlier, only higher torque with lower RPM capability.

    Here's the same cart with an AC-20

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_VUOytVaVs

    They have shorter versions of the HPEVS motors that might fit in with the frame, but you'd then likely be stuck with similar cooling problems of our previous discussion.

  9. #28
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    http://ev-power.com.au/webstore/moto...gy-me1507.html

    me1507-pic.jpg

    Hmmmmm....... Not liquid cooled, but...

    Specs:
    - Brushless IPM motor
    - Sealed, closed frame with cooling fins.
    - Radial Flux rotor, similar in construction to modern Zero motorcyles motors
    - Output Power 20 KW Continuous 100VDC
    - 6000 rpm maximum
    - 3-phase, Y-connected Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor
    - 90% efficient at 100VDC. motor with controller
    - 5 pole pairs (10 magnets).
    - 12 turns per phase
    - Continuous current of 200+ Amps DC.
    - Weight 19.4 kg.
    - Peak Stall Torque is 85 Nm.
    - Temperature sensor KTY84-130
    - Encoder sin/cos
    - shaft 1-1/8"

    PMAC Internal Pole motor designed for the 24-80V Sevcon contoller range
    Last edited by Duck-Stew; 14 December 2016 at 1227.
    '10 Zero S project

  10. #29
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    How hard is it to program a smooth operating sin/cos encoder controller?

    I'm having difficulty finding a motor within my power requirements, size and ease of programming.

    Seems I can find motors easy to program controllers for, fit within the frame size but aren't in the power range I'm looking for (see above post for power I'm considering) (example: Revolt RV160).
    ---or--- I can find motors that fit within the frame, are in the power range but folks are telling me they're difficult to program controllers for (see above post for that exact motor)
    ---or--- I can find motors easy to program for, within the power range but won't fit in my frame... (HPEVS AC9/12/15 for example)

    I'm reminded of the old adage: HIGH QUALITY, LOW PRICE, FAST TURNAROUND // pick any two.
    '10 Zero S project

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck-Stew View Post
    How hard is it to program a smooth operating sin/cos encoder controller?

    I'm having difficulty finding a motor within my power requirements, size and ease of programming.

    Seems I can find motors easy to program controllers for, fit within the frame size but aren't in the power range I'm looking for (see above post for power I'm considering) (example: Revolt RV160).
    ---or--- I can find motors that fit within the frame, are in the power range but folks are telling me they're difficult to program controllers for (see above post for that exact motor)
    ---or--- I can find motors easy to program for, within the power range but won't fit in my frame... (HPEVS AC9/12/15 for example)

    I'm reminded of the old adage: HIGH QUALITY, LOW PRICE, FAST TURNAROUND // pick any two.
    I've seen at least one person throw in the towel with the ME1302 /DLC 28 (liquid cooled "Motenergy") motor and selling them out of frustration when they couldn't get the programming down. Unless you're buying a premade expensive package with all the settings dialed in, you will be doing some programming tweaking.

    That being said, Ripperton was able to use Kelly controllers on his race bike. Here's the build thread for inspiration:

    http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ike-41173.html

    (If for any reason you go with Kelly, know they are generally overrated on their specs. You want to overshoot the controller specs by a LOT if you buy one.)

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