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Thread: USA Leaf owner wants to convert Derbi supermotard

              
   
   
  1. #31
    Senior Member Spaceweasel's Avatar
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    That GSX-R could be a good el-moto... just sayin'.

    You might consider hacking the front subframe to allow for a better pack arrangement and then welding (or paying a local handyman to do it) an extension bracket back in. It looks like there is a fair amount of space behind the front wheel.

    I don't think an extra 50lbs of e-stuff is going to be an issue for that frame, but I would definitely go for the larger motor - maybe even step up to the 10kw!

  2. #32
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceweasel View Post
    That GSX-R could be a good el-moto... just sayin'.

    You might consider hacking the front subframe to allow for a better pack arrangement and then welding (or paying a local handyman to do it) an extension bracket back in. It looks like there is a fair amount of space behind the front wheel.

    I don't think an extra 50lbs of e-stuff is going to be an issue for that frame, but I would definitely go for the larger motor - maybe even step up to the 10kw!
    This is what I've done, and it really will solve all of your battery space issues. I made the battery enclosure a stressed member of the frame, so it really works well as far as handling goes. The inverter TIG welders you can get on Amazon are under $1000 and work very well, makes learning how to weld Al as easy as it gets. I highly recommend Jodi's instructional videos on Welding Tips and Tricks .com. Get a "pulsed" AC TIG to weld Al. Support his channel by purchasing one of his TIG fingers or a gas lense kit (also highly recommended).
    You can do this!!
    Last edited by Stevo; 16 March 2018 at 1123.
    Current rides: '96 Honda Ohlins VFR, '03 Cannondale C440R, '03 Cannondale Cannibal, '06 Yamaha 450 Wolverine 4x4
    Current builds: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4354

  3. #33
    I should be working! furyphoto's Avatar
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    Are you sure you cant make it work without the jack shaft? It adds weight and complication to the system. I would be more inclined to use a 48v motor and 6 or 7 leaf modules. Less weight by removing a couple of battery modules and the jack shaft, so you will get more out of your motor power, and the 2.5 - 2.8 KWh pack should still be plenty for a round trip to your shop, or marina.

    Don't lose sight of what your goals are for this project. I suggest revisiting your second post, and condensing your targets into a few major points. The GSXR would make a great platform for a conversion, but I don't think that was what you were originally after.

    It seemed to me like what you needed was:
    • 35mph average speed
    • 55-60mph top speed for 3 miles
    • light weight
    • 18+ miles range

    I think you will find that the 3kw motor won't get you to the speeds you need to hit in a 'sporty' fashion, especially if you can't keep the weight down, and 4+KW of battery is more weight than you need to carry to hit your goals.

    It's always good to keep your project goals in mind, otherwise its easy to get distracted with more power, more range, more everything. Soon you are ripping the engine out of a perfectly good Gixxer! Not that there is anything wrong with that, but don't turn you first project into your one that never gets completed. I got a bit dragged into that, (better looks, new front end, new swing arm, blah, blah, blah) and my first bike is still not on the road. Granted, there have been a lot of big life changes around our house but still, its not done yet.

    I have just been playing with this calculator, it's kind of fun, and seems to do a decent range calculation. http://www.electricbikesimulator.com/index,enmi.html It's for bicycles, but you can up the weight to over 200kg ( There is an imperial version for the USA, and Metric for the rest of the modern world.)
    -Andrew

    http://www.andrewdoran.com
    mail(at)andrewdoran.com

    My ElMoto Project "Electric Hurricane" - 1987 Honda CBR600 F1: Check out my Build ALBUM
    My ICE Cafe Racer Project "My Precious" - 1983 Honda CM400 Classic

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  5. #34
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    I agree with Andrew... mount your motor closer to the swingarm pivot for less headaches and simplicity. You will have plenty of room for all the other components after you modify the front frame downtubes.
    Current rides: '96 Honda Ohlins VFR, '03 Cannondale C440R, '03 Cannondale Cannibal, '06 Yamaha 450 Wolverine 4x4
    Current builds: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4354

  6. #35
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    I've got a flux wire welder...but I'm a much better grinder than I am a welder....should work for this project tho...and if I have to do anything mission critical,
    I'll just tack and take it to one of my buddies

    I think I'd rather do my RT1100R than the GSXR, just because I have two of the BMW's and one has a weak engine
    ...oh, but really, one of my original plans was to el my '74 corvette convertible(I've got two engines for that, a sm block 350, and a big block 454; butthey are both locked up) so maybe that will be next

    Quote Originally Posted by furyphoto View Post
    ...It's always good to keep your project goals in mind...
    oh, right...those...um, thanks guys....for keeping me on the rails

    I'll re read my posts, and everyone else's...then sit and look at the bike somemore

  7. #36
    Senior Member Spaceweasel's Avatar
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    I love the idea of a convertible e-vette. As a fellow enthusiast prone to scope-creep, I'd convert the Derbi first. Consider the straightforward solution of keeping the driveshaft as close as possible to the original front sprocket location, see where you can most easily mount a 1s set of Leaf cells, then cram everything else wherever it fits. Once you have that up and running then sit back and figure out how big you want to go next - R bike or Corvette.

  8. #37
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    yeah...but

    a big part of this concept was to do that odd motor placement, and the jack-shaft for the final drive ratio, as well as working with a non-stacked 'block' of modules

    I think those are primary design concerns...tho not ordinary, and thus might not work the most efficient(in ease of construction and fundamental cost/out-come)
    ...those are my goals

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  10. #38
    I should be working! furyphoto's Avatar
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    It looks like both the Alta Redshift, and th KTM have either a gearbox or a jackshaft to adjust the final ratio. Although the both have the motor right next to the the drive sprocket (probably gearboxes)
    it's not a terrible idea. I was suggesting that I'd space and weight are tight, it's something to consider dropping. I recently saw an electric conversion with the motor mounted on the swing arm, and the chain at an odd steep angle. The chain is always the right length that way, and careful placement would pretty much eliminate added in spring weight.

    I love the idea of the non-block of leaf modules, it will be a bit difficult to wire, but will have a unique look.
    Last edited by furyphoto; 16 March 2018 at 2101.
    -Andrew

    http://www.andrewdoran.com
    mail(at)andrewdoran.com

    My ElMoto Project "Electric Hurricane" - 1987 Honda CBR600 F1: Check out my Build ALBUM
    My ICE Cafe Racer Project "My Precious" - 1983 Honda CM400 Classic

  11. #39
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    I like the idea of a jackshaft sprocket rotating around the swingarm shaft in concept (not easy to do in practice). Having the final drive sprocket concentric with the swingarm eliminates the change in chain tension when the rear wheel moves up and down. My recollection is that there was a small specialty dirt bike manufacturer (ATK?) some years ago who used a design like this and it seemed to work well, but they were not commercially successful in the long run. Zero solved this issue by placing the motor shaft inline with the swingarm pivot bearing and eliminating the swingarm shaft, but that really weakened the chassis as there is no bar connecting the two sides of the swingarm. It works OK because they have a stiff frame and swingarm, but that design is definitely not optimal for chassis rigidity and bearing longevity.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2011 Royal Enfield 500, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

  12. #40
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    I wont argue with you on your concept. This IS your first build and primarily a learning experiment. You are going to learn A LOT! I suggest both concepts simultaneously with the goal of no jack shaft first, followed by the jack shaft concept. That way you can have two finished products to compare with one another (and you can enjoy the ride while you're finishing up the jackshaft concept.) ...Version 1 and version 1.2 !!!
    Current rides: '96 Honda Ohlins VFR, '03 Cannondale C440R, '03 Cannondale Cannibal, '06 Yamaha 450 Wolverine 4x4
    Current builds: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4354

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