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Thread: USA Leaf owner wants to convert Derbi supermotard

              
   
   
  1. #41
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    thanks for keeping on posting stuff guys, it really helps...while I might not totally jump on board right away with your recommendations...it does make me think, and this is the stage for lots of that, then rethinking lots more

    so, I looked at it again (my Wife gave me a ride to the shop so I could get my circular saw and still drink green beer) so while my Wife was at the grocery store, which takes her a long time; I noticed a few things


    1) space for the motor up high in the rear sub frame is pretty tight; might have to mod that part of the frame some, but I'd think it would have to be reinforced anyway as the motor has to pivot(like an alternator on a car) for belt or chain tightness ...so that might get extra fancy(more than I'd want it to)...I can tell already this will be an issue, with the motor trying to twist itself right out of there, and not being in the 'strong part' of the frame designed for the engine

    2) jackshaft space is limited....I did think earlier about the swing arm axle pivot being the support for a jack shaft tube(as Richard230 just posted above) but my swing arm and frame narrow right there(where it would need to be wider for both chains/belts to clear beside the tire)...a jack shaft will keep the drive sprocket closer to the swing arm pivot like the ICE/trans had it...and there is way more space for a jack shaft than a 8"dia motor(there is no way any Leaf modules would fit inside the frame if the motor was there)...the jack shaft concept and changed motor location is so I can use Leaf battery modules....without the Leaf battery I looked at 18650 cells, but then there goes my range or run time, and I'm doing just one of those popular Chinese eBike kits ...heck, I'd just buy a Sur Ron

    3) I do have other non running motorcycles....namely I have two CB/CL 350 Scramblers(one I paid $175 for, a week later someone saw it and gave me another matching one)....one of them I put new tires on, beefed up NOS vintage aftermarket rear shocks, heavy front springs, and started cleaning it up to do a cafe racer style(I called it a "Cafe Sport")...the other I used the parts I took off the cafe to build it back to stock, but its engine is screwed....sadly nether has any paperwork, so never bothered to run them http://trushcafesport.blogspot.com/
    ...but they have way more space for a bigger motor(normal location) and battery


    4) I just really want to sell that gixxer...yes, I was/am in love with that bike...but I'm never going to ride it again(would rather be on my CBR1100XX Super Blackbird) and selling it would pretty much fund an el.motorcycle build
    Last edited by T Rush; 18 March 2018 at 0426. Reason: added link to my Cafe Sport blog which has good photos of a few of my bikes

  2. #42
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    lets dump this 2 ratio dual motor stuff here then.
    https://i.imgur.com/LcJn6yS.png

    Q. use 2 1/2 sized @ 1.51 for comparison?

    A. 2 1/2 sized motors @ 1.5:1 vs full sized is irrelevant for this discussion (one is in reality better). If you want to do your own homework, you can complicate it as much as you like and clean it up as much as you want.


    Q. why did the fuscia torque line move from the full sized one?

    A. Because you changed something, but you don't seem to understand it. Were you expecting nothing to change with this proposal?!?


    Q. why does the fuscia torque line stop half way?

    A. because you didn't specify how to handle overspeed (and I'm not digging through your walls of text to look for one). Assuming you decouple the 2:1, congratulations, you have made a half-baked transmission, and the torque never catches up since it is running on just a 1/2 sized motor at that point, drops down immediately to the torque line on the 1/2 sized 1:1. Actually I lied, it "catches up" after the full sized 1.5:1 stops accelerating at 8k rpm. We aren't looking at continuous power here though, and depending on the speed, ratio, and cda/rr and the motors in question, it might not even accelerate to or past that point (do you understand that statement?).


    Q. what about my other questions?

    A. they were probably irrelevant, at least until you understand this much, or they were buried in walls of speculation that I didn't care to read thoroughly.

    edit: kill it with fire
    Last edited by dcb; 30 March 2018 at 0725.

  3. #43
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    ^^^please ignore dcb's post above, its from another topic and he is acting weird with asking questions and answering them himself ^^^
    ....I've reported it to moderation, so maybe they could delete it....anyway, sorry about that
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    so I pulled all my Leaf battery module 'mockups' off the bike today
    ....because it just doesn't matter how I stack it, they will always weigh in at 85lbs

    I really liked how I figured out how to fit them in...it would have looked really cool and been something special....but I'm just gonna have to try for a lighter battery pack
    ...I'll keep the idea for a back up if the other battery deal doesn't work out, and/or if I decide that increasing the bikes total weight that much over stock isn't too much of bad deal

    still trying to get closer to buying parts, so I can start a build thread in the projects
    Last edited by T Rush; 03 April 2018 at 0738.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Rush View Post
    ^^^please ignore dcb's post above, its from another topic and he is acting weird with asking questions and answering them himself ^^^
    That's funny... I found it entertaining!

    Buy your batteries last. Actually, wait until your close to finishing your jackshaft set up. Because you never know what kind of battery deals you will find when you are ready for them. We are almost due for a leap in batt chemistry engineering which will make everything currently available obsolete. Lots of good deals are right around the corner.
    Ya, I'm a glass half full kinda guy
    Current rides: '96 Honda Ohlins VFR, '03 Cannondale C440R, '03 Cannondale Cannibal, '06 Yamaha 450 Wolverine 4x4
    Current builds: WORX.VOR.v3.2

  5. #45
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    yeah, I kinda don't have that luxury of being able to do the battery pack later....as I'm extremely space and weight limited
    ...even with doing that jackshaft...its like it doesn't take up as much space as a motor would in that location, but it does subtract from the total space available
    currently looking at modifying the rear swing arm pivot(which I really don't want to do) to incorporate the jackshaft(like the Sur Ron...again) but I think I've kinda stumbled upon simple way to do it....using that good ol' thinking outside the box ....but, depending on the battery pack, I might not have to do that with a jackshaft, or might be able to avoid a jackshaft altogether

  6. #46
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    whelp....time to switch back to the old plan....as I finally got ahold of my Mother who just happened to be out in Arizona, and driving back in a week; asked her if she would be anywhere near Chandler Az and could pick up a Bolt battery module or two for me(saving $100 shipping per module) I'd also been in contact with that guy I posted about who was able to get an entire Chevy Bolt battery pack, and he quoted me even lower prices if I picked them up
    ...however he now says they are all gone (probably someone will stick them in a golf cart)

    so I guess back to the bigger heavier Leaf modules and for sure the jackshaft....which is fine, as now I don't have to be in such a 'rush', because we still have snow on the ground and setting record low temps(so kinda hard to sell my gixxer) and I still need to finish a few winter projects(redoing the sound system and installing a TV screen, plus I'm only about half done with a new coat of anti-foul bottom paint) on our big boat before it goes out to the marina in its slip

    yup, more 'wild speculation' still to come until I can get my hands dirty

    dang, that just would have been so cool to get those Bolt cells, as with the lower weight and size I would of had so many more options with motor size(power) and placement...I guess I could go with the ever popular 18650 cells to still get a pack like that, but I'd rather do the Leaf cans than that

    are the first gen Leaf modules sealed ?
    ...I like the looks(and price) of those better...so if anyone has some old ones they upgraded? just saying I'll be looking

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