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Thread: are electric twist throttles crap?

              
   
   
  1. #1
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    are electric twist throttles crap?

    I noticed on the new Sur Ron that they use a standard motorcycle cable throttle control that runs down into the chassis to a remote electric throttle control actuator

    in one of the videos I saw the rider dumps the bike hard on the right side and bar end, but he explains that the throttle control is still able to function after such a hard hit because its not a standard cheaper eScooter throttle, but one from a real motorcycle

    besides having few options on which ones are available; it seems that the big difference in an electric twist throttle would be that it has to contain the return spring, as well as hanging a petty sensitive eDevice control packaged in a tight space right on the end of the handle bars where its prone to damage....wondering if it could be better, and have more options just sticking with a mechanical throttle with a cable, that could be more adjustable for rate and rotate range and different springs could be used

    has anyone had any experience with cheap vs good eThrottles? troubles, lack of adjustablity, springs too stiff or too soft, or damage
    ...or ways to adapt a cable throttle that worked well or didn't

    thanks

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ted Dillard's Avatar
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    For a long time Magura was the only 5k ohm throttle available, and they kind of sucked. Domino offered a really nice throttle in 2014 which I tested here:
    https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2014/03/...ino-vs-magura/ I've been running the Domino without any issues since. Several race bikes I know of are running the Domino.

    Both Magura and Domino make gas motorcycle throttles as well. The Energica I rode had a Domino. I've never seen any throttle that could withstand a good hit at speed, so that argument (and I've seen it made before) seems kind of silly.
    Power in Flux: The History of Electric Motorcycles
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  3. #3
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    I've looked at both those brands...and the more affordable ones
    ...wondering mainly if using the stock cable throttle would be better than a cheap eThrottle...sorry if that seems like a silly question, but not all of us would like to invest in a Domino if(like you say) they are all going to break with the first good hit at speed....as sooner or later I've dropped every bike I've owned(except -knock on wood- my Honda Blackbird) and I know if I build an elMoto, all my friends and my kids will want to try it out(see if they can break it? urgh) esp if its a cute smaller supermotard

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ted Dillard's Avatar
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    Have you actually priced them? A pot box throttle is more expensive that a Domino: https://www.electricmotorsport.com/e...-box-throttles

    ..plus, you're just adding more stuff to fail. Like throttle cables. I've dropped the dirt bike I built and the Domino did just fine. My point is the electric versions are no more or less vulnerable to being smashed in a crash.
    Power in Flux: The History of Electric Motorcycles
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  5. #5
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    yes I've been pricing everything, and I've found one that is purpose built for this application, as used in the Sur Ron, that is in-between the price of a cheap eThrottle and the more expensive ones....and yes those(more complication and parts to fail) are concerns

    but, they did it on the Sur Ron....and that seems to be one of the most forward thinking practical elmotos out there today...so I want to closely examine what new stuff is happening now, even if it seems they are using older tech that might appear obsolete

  6. #6
    Senior Member Ted Dillard's Avatar
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    The Sur Ron is a motorized bicycle. At best a trials bike.

    https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron/

    Look, I tried. You ask a question, then want to piss about when you get an answer based on fact or experience. I don't really even know what you're trying to accomplish, but I'm done playing.
    Power in Flux: The History of Electric Motorcycles
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  7. #7
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    if anyone else is interested in what exactly I'm talking about, its using a TPS
    some random examples https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...nsor+&_sacat=0

    back in the day when I was into the whole DIY EV thing(for the second time) I followed Metric Mind who was doing some really cutting edge stuff
    ...so I went back and revisited what he had done to see if any of it would transfer to today and the eMotorbike conversion I'm trying to plan out(and see how the project I was following turned out)

    one of the things I was researching was regenerative motor braking analog control using the old clutch lever and cable...
    here is one of the links to his High-End No Compromise EV car using a TPS and rigid arm linkage to the shifter(instead of clutch cable) http://www.metricmind.com/audi/10-shifter.htm
    [before anyone goes nuts on if engine braking of any kind is good to do on a motorcycle, or if regen is worth it or not....I'm not a believer in any of that; and basically want to keep the clutch lever mainly as a way to mount the left mirror lol, and have it matching the looks of the right side bar, also so when people ask if it has "regen" I can point at the repurposed clutch lever and they can say 'oh cool'...seriously thats about it, and worth the time and maybe $30]

    ...so then I came across yet another Sur Ron video as I posted in the OP

    (notice he was able to change the grips on the standard cable throttle control, idk if you can do that with all eThrottles)

    so I thought; hey, maybe I don't have to lay out the bucks for the Domino(read where many people prefer it over other all other eThrottles) or just get something cheap and hate it or break it...and I could actually use a TPS for a throttle position sensor(crazy I know, right) if I'm already doing one system like that for worthless regen, might as well do another that I'd actually use
    (...nice added feature of it is if the throttle sensor goes out, I can swap it for the regen one)

    so thought maybe all full electric twist throttles had drawbacks anyway(just because everyone else is jumping off the bridge ya know)
    but, if its a way worse idea than getting even a cheap eThrottle, then not mess with it
    Last edited by T Rush; 03 April 2018 at 2325.

  8. #8
    I should be working! furyphoto's Avatar
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    It seems like a lot of extra work and complication, as well as adding potential points of failure to me.

    By the time you:

    • Figure out where to route the cable and mount the tps
    • Build some sort of interface lever to connect the cable to the tps, with the correct range of motion
    • You wiĺl need an extra voltage regulator to feed 5v to the tps
    • ensure the controller you want to use will accept a 0 to 5v signal opposed to a 0-5k ohm one (I think most will, If not you will need to convert the 0-5v to the correct signal)
    • Figure out whether it's possible for the tps to fail on at full throttle
    • what throttle signal will get sent to the controller if your cable or home made linkage beaks or slips?
    • take up more space in your already tight frame.

    It sure seems to me like it would be easier and safer to pay 50-90 bucks for a widly used, and proven product.

    My thoughts on building an electric bike is that the elegance is in the simplicity of the system. Adding complication for the sake of complication doesnt make any sense, to me anyway. And seriously, if $50 or $90 is a stretch for such a crutial part of your build, you are in the wrong hobby.

    Without trying to be a d!ck, I'm also going to add, that I think it's fairly disrespectful and in general bad forum form to be the 'new guy' coming to ask questions, and then attacking long time experienced members (who LITERALLY wrote the book on elecrtic motorcycles) whose educated position didn't provide the answer you wanted to hear.

    I get it, you are excited, and eager to come up with new ideas. You recent post volume is certainly evidence that you are totally into this elmoto thing , and that's great. Pretty much everything you or I can think of has already been tried, and that's what a forum is for. Gaining knowledge from those more knowledgeable or experienced than ourselves. If you want to re-try something that's already been done, and learn the hard way, go to it. If you end up building a better mouse trap, then sharing that experience is the best thing you can do to contribute to the community. That's what folks like Ted are doing when they tell you things you don't want to hear. Sharing their experience to make your path easier to travel. You don't have to agree with what they say, but there is no need for attacks and disrespect. And I am seriously trying to say this as much as I possibly can, without disrespect.
    -Andrew

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  9. #9
    Senior Member Spaceweasel's Avatar
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    To answer a glossed-over question: You can change out the grips on both the Magura and Domino throttles. The Magura becomes much more pleasant with new rubber, but the Domino is pretty good as is. Both allow you to cut through the end piece and mount bar end mirrors or hand guards just like any other throttle. Ted's review is spot on.

  10. #10
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    I've thought a lot about this topic. I too have considered the off-the-shelf hall TPS sensor "potbox" as an alternative to the Domino/Magura. I think it's a neat idea for conversions though it does have drawbacks. I personally bought a Domino after doing some research and reading Ted's review. Though I do wish that it was hall effect it's otherwise quite nice and I don't regret purchasing it.

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