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Thread: motorcycle vs battery form factor issues

              
   
   
  1. #11
    Senior Member Spaceweasel's Avatar
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    How long is your battery box area? I'm working with converted Tesla modules on my build - it the space/weight permits you could try these. Your initial design seems like these would be a pretty good fit. They are roughly 11"x3"x27", 50lbs each. Modules from a P85 are 228ah and 25v. I am using converted ones that are twice the voltage but half the ah, 114ah, 50v. Either way, each module is about 5.2kwh.

    Set on edge, in a "v" formation would make it 6" wide at the bottom center, with the outside 2 raised high enough to meet your lean angle requirements. As a bonus, the lower center top valley could then house other components.

  2. #12
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    What's the deal with the "insert image from URL" function in the message editor? Most every time it locks things up and gives a forum software error (and loses text in the reply). Adding an attachment works fine.

    I'll make the battery area as big as I need it, within reason. Here's another screen cap removing the Leaf module placeholders and adding Ergo Man. The area above the motor/behind the pilot can have some battery and other components (controller, contactor, etc) in that space. There will be no provision for a passenger and that area will be faired to the rider. Some items of low weight could go in the nose of the fairing

    Don't the Tesla modules require liquid cooling? I want to avoid adding fluids since the motor is air-cooled. It seems to me that since air rushing around inside a bike is a source of drag an e-moto that doesn't have to suck in 2000+ liters of air each minute to feed the engine plus extra air to remove waste heat ought to be able to eliminate some of that and extend range a bit.

    A reasonable approximation of the bodywork is the Royce Creasey-designed Voyager though I'll probably have the seat a little more forward than that:

    http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/FF/Voyager.jpg

    If the Tesla parts (I guess I'd need at least 4?) can be air cooled and maybe a couple stood somewhat vertical behind the seat they might be made to fit

    A Zero S with Power tank is a claimed 16.6 kWh with 103 mile highway range. Just adding a decent screen sounds like it bumps the range around 10% and I'm aiming for less frontal area and more comprehensive bodywork. The Zero's 16.6 kWh capacity @ 100ish V is my starting target for a battery pack. At this time I'm leaning towards having enough battery to not need to recharge if I go out for a spin vs adding multiple fast chargers and not straying too far from hopefully-unoccupied charging stations.

    It appears that e-motos have a similar problem to FF motorcycles. The first lacks readily available and affordable batteries of sufficient capacity in a shape that fits a motorcycle and the FFs generally lack an ICE and intake/exhaust/fuel systems that are in a shape that fits in the FF without making the rider sit in some awkward spot.

    Thanks for the comments,
    Michael
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  4. #13
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    Isn't Zero's battery pack proprietary and made in house? They are pouch cells, not Tesla like cylindrical cells. You are comparing apples to oranges.
    Current rides: '96 Honda Ohlins VFR, '03 Cannondale C440R, '03 Cannondale Cannibal, '06 Yamaha 450 Wolverine 4x4
    Current builds: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4354

  5. #14
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    Stevo, don't both Zero and Tesla batteries have a voltage and kWH rating? If so then by looking at those numbers I don't think I'm comparing apples to oranges.

    I'm using the Zero as a benchmark because it is about the only electric motorcycle around that is made in any quantity with something approaching a real world usability range and they use the same basic motor and controller that I will be using (because they came along and I decided to buy them, not because I have any particular brand loyalty). If Zero needs 16 kWh to go 100 miles on the freeway with a nearly identical motor/controller as in my project, then my guess is that I should plan for at least 16 kWh if I want to go 100 miles (or farther) on the freeway.

    Zero buys in cells from Farasis

    http://www.farasis.com/application/e...c-motorcycles/

    https://re3d.org/making-electric-mot...arasis-energy/

    and it appears Zero does at least some final assembly on the packs.

    The actual battery chemistry/technology is pretty much immaterial to me. You could offer me a pouch cell, a cylindrical cell (which seems to be a pouch that is rolled up and stuffed into a case) or one with minaturized gerbils running on tiny treadmills connected to a generator. I'm not going to take a Ford vs Chevy stance on batteries, I'll take which ever one fits in the space, is safe, affordable, has a decent life, hopefully can be recycled when it is used up, is something I can feel comfortable building if I can't buy one ready to go, and performs well on capacity and power delivery/recharge specs. I'm interested in the bottom line, which is an electric powered motorcycle that when/if it is finished performs the way I want it to perform.

    cheers,
    Michael

  6. #15
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89680

    Hopefully this link will help you. There are subtle differences in chemistries and manufacturing processes .... makes all the difference in the world.
    Last edited by Stevo; 3 Weeks Ago at 0811.
    Current rides: '96 Honda Ohlins VFR, '03 Cannondale C440R, '03 Cannondale Cannibal, '06 Yamaha 450 Wolverine 4x4
    Current builds: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4354

  7. #16
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    Thanks for that link, I hadn't found it yet, there's a lot of material here and at endless-sphere to plow through.

    I've been reading and I realize there's a lot of stuff going on inside the batteries. That's why I'm not going to say "I want a LNMCO" or some other specific type of battery because there's a lot of different types/brands out there and as you say the differences can be subtle. Instead I'm establishing the goals I want to be met by a battery and I'm quite open to using whatever can be identified that will do the job. Asking people who've been using different batteries for comments on their experiences is part of that identification process.

    I don't need to know why the light comes on when I flip the switch, it just has to do so and provide the needed illumination. But having some "why" knowledge sure is useful when the light doesn't come on like it is supposed to do.

    cheers,
    Michael

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