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Thread: 1980 Kawasaki 440 LTD 8kW conversion

              
   
   
  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Functional Artist View Post
    Ya, I know. I've done a lot of work on go karts & jack shafts are used a lot.
    I just working with technology & terms that I was used to & also parts that I already had, to work with.

    I was thinkin' strength. Most idlers, that I knew of were for light duty situations like routing belts on car engines.
    I figured this big motor, motivating a full size motorcycle, would apply much more pressure/force.
    I guess you could call it a DIY super HD idler/(1) sprocket jackshaft.

    I can't put anything above the swing arm, that where the motor is going to be mounted (it fills the whole space)
    It looks like this set up will but, I appreciate the input, stay tuned

    Here is a video with more info

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0ReyyFYkKk&t=190s
    It seems to me you're going to a lot of work,expense, and an extra 5# of weight, when there is an easier, cheaper, and lighter solution. An idler on the slack side of a chain or belt drive is typically lightly loaded when compared to the other bearings and sprockets in the system. Regenerative braking would put an intermittent somewhat heavier load on the idler- but probably well within its load capacity.

    The location for the idler sprocket I'm referring to is far away from the motor location, close to the rear sprocket, on top of the swing arm.
    Last edited by Electro Flyers; 19 August 2018 at 0857.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electro Flyers View Post
    It seems to me you're going to a lot of work,expense, and an extra 5# of weight, when there is an easier, cheaper, and lighter solution. An idler on the slack side of a chain or belt drive is typically lightly loaded when compared to the other bearings and sprockets in the system. Regenerative braking would put an intermittent somewhat heavier load on the idler- but probably well within its load capacity.

    The location for the idler sprocket I'm referring to is far away from the motor location, close to the rear sprocket, on top of the swing arm.
    I'm not following you.

    On top of the swing arm, between the motor (drive sprocket) & wheel (driven sprocket) is the "heavy load" drive side & not where an idler is needed

    I needed an "idler" sprocket down below the motor, on the "slack" side, to help route the chain around the swing arm


    The motor rotating clockwise pulls on the sprocket of the rear wheel, via the chain, making it turn clockwise too

    ...on the "slack" side, the chain comes down off of the motor sprocket to the jack shaft sprocket "idler"

    ...then, wraps around the "idler" sprocket, clearing the swing arm & goes back to the sprocket on the rear wheel completing "the circuit"
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  3. #13
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    I think you meant to write counterclockwise. Put all of the chain above the SW, between the sprockets. Put the idler sprocket in a fabricated bracket on top of the SW, close to the rear sprocket, below the lower, slack chain. The one clearance issue may be where the chain passes over the idler sprocket, past the inside of the SW tube, to the rear sprocket. Some minimal flattening of the inside of the SW tube might create enough clearance, as I wrote before, or move the sprockets inboard slightly.
    Last edited by Electro Flyers; 19 August 2018 at 1134.
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  4. #14
    Member Functional Artist's Avatar
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    Yes, counterclockwise

    A feature of "this" concept is that the gear ratio can be easily changed.
    ...the motor & "idler" both have a 3/4" shaft with a 3/36" key

    I am using a 10T sprocket on the motor, a 13T sprocket on the "idler" & a 54T sprocket on the rear wheel for a 5.4:1 gear ratio
    So, by simply swapping the motors 10T sprocket with the "idler" 13T sprocket the gear ratio would change to ~4.1 gear ratio
    …& the chain length & tension would not change or have to be adjusted

    How well this motor will motivate all of the weight of the motorcycle & the operator & at what gear ratio is questionable
    ...this concept gives me options
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Functional Artist View Post
    Yes, counterclockwise

    A feature of "this" concept is that the gear ratio can be easily changed.
    ...the motor & "idler" both have a 3/4" shaft with a 3/36" key

    I am using a 10T sprocket on the motor, a 13T sprocket on the "idler" & a 54T sprocket on the rear wheel for a 5.4:1 gear ratio
    So, by simply swapping the motors 10T sprocket with the "idler" 13T sprocket the gear ratio would change to ~4.1 gear ratio
    & the chain length & tension would not change or have to be adjusted

    How well this motor will motivate all of the weight of the motorcycle & the operator & at what gear ratio is questionable
    ...this concept gives me options
    I think you meant to write 3/16" key. Interesting rationalization for an overweight and overwrought design.
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  6. #16
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    Yes again, the key is 3/16"
    ...typin' too fast

    Interesting description of my DIY idea though

    Next, I had to make an "extension shelf" to help support the motor

    Here is a video with more info

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4zEj0xQ9g0

    & here's another

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbBYPVDzMcU
    Last edited by Functional Artist; 20 August 2018 at 0830.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electro Flyers View Post
    It seems to me you're going to a lot of work,expense, and an extra 5# of weight, when there is an easier, cheaper, and lighter solution. An idler on the slack side of a chain or belt drive is typically lightly loaded when compared to the other bearings and sprockets in the system. Regenerative braking would put an intermittent somewhat heavier load on the idler- but probably well within its load capacity.

    The location for the idler sprocket I'm referring to is far away from the motor location, close to the rear sprocket, on top of the swing arm.
    This video may help to explain this jack shaft/idler concept & placement a bit better

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3EOoFsOFu4&t=4s

    SAM_4835 (3).jpg
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  8. #18
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    So, how is this design working out for you?
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  10. #19
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    Functional Art!

    Installing the motor
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFKgGyDU0IY
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  11. #20
    Senior Member T Rush's Avatar
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    ok, now I see what(why) you are doing....unless you explained this in another video; but with your motor placement, the chain can't directly drive the rear sprocket as it would of hit the swing-arm where the chain rounds the bottom of the sprocket angling to the motor....so with the jackshaft the chain can stay under the swing-arm until it has clearance to run straight up
    unique solution...and it all works because the motor sprocket, idle sprocket, and drive sprocket are mounted to the swing-arm


    I thought about a similar idea for a motor in that area of the frame; with two idle sprockets(locked together or keyed on the same jackshaft) at the swing-arm pivot point, then using two chains(one on the motor, other on the rear sprocket) to the idler sprockets....as the swing-arm pivot point sprockets stay relatively stationary to both drive or motor sprockets, tho the distance directly between them doesnt....and the two idle sprockets can have different numbers of teeth to step down the gearing
    ...so I couldn't quite fully imagine how your chain wouldn't go slack(and if the idle sprocket was to take up that slack?) , and why you couldn't just directly drive the rear sprocket from the motor; until I saw that last video, but I get it now


    [edit] oh, I just noticed that last video is a year old and saw videos of this project completed, err or almost....but why does it still have the exhaust pipes on it? [/edit]
    Last edited by T Rush; 21 August 2018 at 0107.
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