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Allen_okc
21 November 2011, 1144
Here is a little video i find very interesting...


"A name not to be mentioned on this thread" and many others. Always the same story. The Pentagon wants to see your idea and tell you how they would like to use your invention. You demonstrate your device proving to them that it works, then they block all of your efforts and end up killing it. The only way to get a free energy device out to the public is to forget about patents, distribute underground, sell it to EV enthusiasts with the plans and encourage them to travel around and do as you are, you then have created a non interlinked underground distribution system that will spread to the general populous and it will spread like wild fire, it will be un-stoppable.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGRsQZx6zWA&feature=player_embedded#!

:O no need to reply - just consider it...

billmi
21 November 2011, 1249
I find it amazing how much local and national TV and print media coverage there has been about these inventors who's accomplishments were supposedly covered up by government and big energy concerns that control the TV and print media.

Trying to use water as a combustion power source is like expecting to put car exhaust into your carbeurator having it power your engine, and drip gasoline out of the tailpipe.

Water isn't fuel for burning, it's the end product from burning fuel, the low energy state of the reaction. Hydrogen and oxygen can power an engine, they'll release energy as they burn and produce water as exhaust. But to get that water to go the other way - back into hydrogen and oxygen you have to supply power, there's no energy there to be extracted.

podolefsky
21 November 2011, 1256
There might be some insidious practices from the oil companies, but that doesn't change the laws of physics. There's no such thing as free energy.

Allen_okc
21 November 2011, 1436
im afraid you can burn water - when you extract the hydrogen from it...

from the use of a bubbler and heat from the exhaust, known as the plasma engine...

the problem is - water is a precious commodity, if we screw it up then there will be no point for transportation...

the answer lies within the sun and wind and Electric Vehicles...

podolefsky
21 November 2011, 1451
do you have a link to explain the bubbler and plama engine? i'm interested in how it works.

Brutus
21 November 2011, 1500
Here is a "free" energy system using water
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6LjuZsod4E4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Now if I could figure out how to make the stream portable lol

podolefsky
21 November 2011, 1513
cool hydroelectric generator...but it's not "free". but bad things happen when you slow the water down to extract energy from it. China knows this all too well now:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=chinas-three-gorges-dam-disaster

billmi
21 November 2011, 1619
im afraid you can burn water - when you extract the hydrogen from it...

from the use of a bubbler and heat from the exhaust, known as the plasma engine...

the problem is - water is a precious commodity, if we screw it up then there will be no point for transportation...

the answer lies within the sun and wind and Electric Vehicles...

No, you can't burn water. Burning is an exothermic oxidation reaction - combining a fuel with oxygen and releasing energy.

You can split water into hydrogen and oxygen. That is an endothermic reaction, you have to supply it with energy.

Using a solar panel to supply the energy you could split water and use the hydrogen to fuel a vehicle.

The amount of energy released when hydrogen burns is equal to the amount of energy needed to split water into H2 and O2, so the best you could ever hope for is an engine that makes enough fuel to keep running, you'd have no extra energy left to push a vehicle. In the real world, where machines aren't 100% efficient, the engine wouldn't even be self sustaining.

Using waste heat to split water would at best recover otherwise wasted energy, but you still need a source of power to make enough hydrogen to move the vehicle, just like regenerative braking recovers otherwise wasted energy, but doesn't eliminate the need for charging batteries.

podolefsky
21 November 2011, 1644
In the real world, where machines aren't 100% efficient, the engine wouldn't even be self sustaining.


yup - in fact, the 2nd law of thermodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics) says that no process can be 100% efficient. basically, you can't build a perpetual motion machine (or get free energy).

teddillard
21 November 2011, 1650
HA! I was thinking about all this free energy stuff and those aluminum collectors from Tesla and all... then it occurred to me. Hell, solar is a hell of a lot more "free" than any of that snake oil, even if it worked. It's pretty much perpetual, too, as far as I'm concerned... that is to say, when we run out, getting power is probably going to be the least of our problems.

I mean, Ed runs his bikes and car on free, perpetual power (http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php/230-Solar-power-for-fun-%28and-profit-%29-Charging-up-your-EV), right?

podolefsky
21 November 2011, 1703
HA! I was thinking about all this free energy stuff and those aluminum collectors from Tesla and all... then it occurred to me. Hell, solar is a hell of a lot more "free" than any of that snake oil, even if it worked. It's pretty much perpetual, too, as far as I'm concerned... that is to say, when we run out, getting power is probably going to be the least of our problems.

I mean, Ed runs his bikes and car on free, perpetual power (http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php/230-Solar-power-for-fun-%28and-profit-%29-Charging-up-your-EV), right?

Exactly. Solar is getting so cheap that it can actually compete with fossil fuels. Which is why it's now a target of big oil companies...witness the huge non-issue "scandal" over Solyndra.

billmi
22 November 2011, 0558
I mean, Ed runs his bikes and car on free, perpetual power (http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php/230-Solar-power-for-fun-%28and-profit-%29-Charging-up-your-EV), right?

Lifetime of power that does not have economic cost, yes.

Free (as in not requiring a source of fuel or energy input), perpetual energy, no.

Ed's panels capture energy produced by the fusion of hydrogen into helium. Just like the oil in the earth's crust will run out if we keep consuming it faster than it is produced, eventually the hydrogen in the sun will be used up. That's expected to happen about 7 billion years from now, but no worries if the cosmological models based on observation of other stars in our galaxy is correct, it will expand and destroy the earth before it cools down to the point that it stops radiating energy.

teddillard
22 November 2011, 0724
... it will expand and destroy the earth before it cools down to the point that it stops radiating energy.
Yeah, like I said, bigger problems... :D

jpanichella
22 November 2011, 0724
That's free enough for me.

Allen_okc
22 November 2011, 0753
i found several examples of water engines - basically the engine does not run on water - but the hydrogen is pulled from the water while the engine is running, there for not requiring to drive around with a hydrogen bomb in your tank, just water... the plasma engine was an invention since the 1930's...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrcGqWcGsds&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ2QciCN5Ks&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUgUF5M3FTI&feature=related

Allen_okc
22 November 2011, 0803
the thing is im not in favor of engines that run on water - im in favor of EV's that use solar and wind charging stations... im in favor of getting my electric chopper running so i can demonstrate to the public that they dont have to burn gasoline every day just to get work...

as the white zombie said in his video - dont tell them to use electric vehicles, but show them they do have alternatives...

Saruman
22 November 2011, 0819
Plasma propulsion wasn't invented in the '30, but rather in the '60s or '70, and they're completely useless for propelling any vehicle other than a spacecraft: they're immensely efficient but also relatively bulky and extremely weak.
Furthermore, allen_okc, you haven't found examples of engines running on water, but one example of an engine running on hydrogen, and two pranks or scams. In the Netherland gas costs a little over $8 per gallon (€1,59 per liter) and nobody here is filling up with water - although I know some folks from TU Delft (http://greenchoice-forze.com/) and have seen their student race car that runs on hydrogen (fuel cell converting hydrogen to electricity for their two Agni 95R).

Now, for many people, if they WANT to believe something, they will... many people would WANT to believe they could run their car without petrol cost, by using water and some magical machine or ingredient - thus it must be true, and some evil entity is just trying to cover up the "truth" (usually spelled with capitals and with lotsa exclamation marks).
Physics don't lie; you cannot burn water. There is no free energy coverup because there is nothing there that can be covered up. But for anyone that thinks otherwise: I also happen to have some premium quality swamp for sale, only slightly more expensive because of its abundance of free energy :-)

Richard230
22 November 2011, 0855
When it comes to cheap motion, I prefer gravity. I just keep riding downhill and avoid going uphill. I hear this power system is referred to as "Mexican Overdrive" and was used a lot during the 1950's when there used to be a road race (I think it was sponsored by Mobil Oil) on real roads where cars tried to get the best fuel mileage in order to win the "race". That wasn't so easy as the cars of that time were made of real steel, instead of plastic, carbon fiber and plasma gas.

Allen_okc
22 November 2011, 0910
i believe if its on the internet it must true... :o

Allen_okc
22 November 2011, 0911
i hear the gravity theory works very well - but in oklahoma we call it georgia overdrive...


When it comes to cheap motion, I prefer gravity. I just keep riding downhill and avoid going uphill. I hear this power system is referred to as "Mexican Overdrive" and was used a lot during the 1950's when there used to be a road race (I think it was sponsored by Mobil Oil) on real roads where cars tried to get the best fuel mileage in order to win the "race". That wasn't so easy as the cars of that time were made of real steel, instead of plastic, carbon fiber and plasma gas.

teddillard
22 November 2011, 0912
..I just keep riding downhill and avoid going uphill. ..

I'd think that might be a problem, living as close to the coast as you do... :O

Allen_okc
22 November 2011, 0920
i appreciate your opinion Saruman, i really do - and as an army brat whos dad spent 21 years in service who has been stationed at fort langley "CIA training base" and fort eustis who has a flying saucer in their air museum and as i grew up on edwards air force base, watching flying orange lights that did fyling T formations at night and as the rocket engines that fired up on the mountain ranges, which was a awesome site to be seen, also as a person who has seen things that the public cannot even conceive yet... i understand your opinion...

now with that said, how much do you want for your swamp land?


Plasma propulsion wasn't invented in the '30, but rather in the '60s or '70, and they're completely useless for propelling any vehicle other than a spacecraft: they're immensely efficient but also relatively bulky and extremely weak.
Furthermore, allen_okc, you haven't found examples of engines running on water, but one example of an engine running on hydrogen, and two pranks or scams. In the Netherland gas costs a little over $8 per gallon (€1,59 per liter) and nobody here is filling up with water - although I know some folks from TU Delft (http://greenchoice-forze.com/) and have seen their student race car that runs on hydrogen (fuel cell converting hydrogen to electricity for their two Agni 95R).

Now, for many people, if they WANT to believe something, they will... many people would WANT to believe they could run their car without petrol cost, by using water and some magical machine or ingredient - thus it must be true, and some evil entity is just trying to cover up the "truth" (usually spelled with capitals and with lotsa exclamation marks).
Physics don't lie; you cannot burn water. There is no free energy coverup because there is nothing there that can be covered up. But for anyone that thinks otherwise: I also happen to have some premium quality swamp for sale, only slightly more expensive because of its abundance of free energy :-)

Allen_okc
22 November 2011, 0931
im sorry - i just believe that there are things that are kept from the public for a reason that only our governments understand and is probably in the best interest of us all...

i just hate the ideal of being a slave to big oil companies...

the electric vehicle is our best hope and im all for that, at all cost...

teddillard
22 November 2011, 1102
fort eustis who has a flying saucer in their air museum

Well, yeah. The Avrocar. Here's some more information: http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Avro-Avrocar.html

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cmPiZv4q4Ms" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

'course, that was before they had lipo.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/L75ESD9PBOw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

...as far as that other stuff. Well. The more you drive, the less intelligent you are. See?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/X4QKiYar9pI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Allen_okc
22 November 2011, 1142
i want one - wasnt they supposed to have flying cars by now?

teddillard
22 November 2011, 1224
i want one - wasnt they supposed to have flying cars by now?

They do, but the govt keeps all of them to themselves. :cool:

Allen_okc
22 November 2011, 1331
yeah i guess everyone's right - the government doesnt lie to us...

my bag, I apologize...

Saruman
22 November 2011, 1356
Well of course the government lie to us, otherwise their members wouldn't be called "politicians". But they're not hiding sinister massive plots from Illuminati, Aliens, the 12 Chosen, the Freemasons, the 9/11 inside job, Big Oil's suppression of Free Energy, Bigfoot, Loch Ness and what have you not. The government may at any time hide small-scale corruption, bribes, nepotism, favouritism, lobbyism, opportunism, and/or a whole lot more -isms, but they really cannot keep big secrets for very long.
There are several credible theories for the "tin foil hat" phenomenon, a.o. this one (http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200501/conspiracy-theories-explained). Me, I go for hard science, Occam's razor and Napoleon Bonaparte's "never ascribe to malice...". Sure someone can claim to make an engine run on water, but I need to see both the running engine AND the scientific explanation - and I know my share of science, pseudoscience usually doesn't fly with me*.

* someone tried to flog me a fake turboencabulator, but I knew my facts, and insisted on getting a real one! It was pricey, but wait 'till it's on my bike!

Warren
22 November 2011, 1358
What is really funny, is that I tried to find some pictures of the generic food aisles that were in all the supermarkets in the 1980's. I found people asking why they couldn't find pictures....but no pictures. You can find pictures of the generic beer cans, as collectors have them.

See how everything is connected Ted? Hey! Have you ever looked at the back of your hand? No, I mean REALLY looked at it. :-)

teddillard
22 November 2011, 1403
awww, c'mon now Allen... :D


Have you ever looked at the back of your hand? No, I mean REALLY looked at it. :-)

Did you know it's impossible to "Watch Your Head"?

http://static.emedco.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/Clearance--Capacity-Signs---Industrial-44263BBHPLY2WY-ba.jpg

Allen_okc
22 November 2011, 1504
Ted, im a little upset that you said big foot doesnt exist... ;)

Allen_okc
22 November 2011, 1506
its all good...

liveforphysics
22 November 2011, 1728
im afraid you can burn water - when you extract the hydrogen from it...

from the use of a bubbler and heat from the exhaust, known as the plasma engine...

the problem is - water is a precious commodity, if we screw it up then there will be no point for transportation...



This is simply 100% BS.

Also, when you burn hydrogen, the byproduct is water, exactly the same amount of water that you used to get the water if you were bothering to separate it through electrolysis.

If you wish to run an engine on water, let's go through the energy steps, say we want to use 10kw-hr of electricity.

Step #1. Separate the covalent bonds in H20 with electrolysis for 10hours at 1kw. Use the most efficient electrolysis conditions possible, 94%. Now you have the chemical potential energy of 9.4kw-hr of hydrogen stored. In reality, it also takes a substantial amount of energy to compress this hydrogen for storage, but we will pretend you've just got a giant sack of it for this example.

Step #2. If you're using an ICE (internal combustion engine), and you're the best spark-ignition efficiency engine on earth (because hydrogen can't be used for compression ignition engines), you're looking at 37% efficiency at converting that chemical potential energy stored in the hydrogen into useful mechanical energy to move a car.

Now your 10kwhr of electricity you started with is down to 3.4kwhr, and this is using ONLY the theoretical best possible efficiency.

In a best case, everything perfect, no device wasted a bit more power than is theoretically possible, using water for fuel just throws away 66% of the energy you put into the water.

This is why hydrogen is commercially produced by taking a carbon off of natural gas in a cracking catalyst, throwing away a portion of the energy you started with in natural gas in the process, but still saving loads of energy vs using water.

You can run an engine off anything that will burn, gun powder, wood, lard, dry grass clippings, hydrogen separated from water, etc etc. However, you can't make even a drop more power out of the system than you put into it, and EVERY system, EVERY time, will use more power than it outputs.

billmi
23 November 2011, 0457
But they're not hiding sinister massive plots from Illuminati, Aliens, the 12 Chosen, the Freemasons...

Don't forget Colonel Sanders before he went teats-up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee beady eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"

Allen_okc
23 November 2011, 0624
who came up with this stupid thread - they should be slapsed upside the head...

as i duck and run away...

teddillard
23 November 2011, 0648
...Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee beady eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"

So where do you think all those chickens come from? Thats right. You got it. TIME machines.

(There's a life-size statue of the Col. at my local KFC. Freaks me right the **** out.)

billmi
23 November 2011, 0700
Why do I hate the colonel you ask? Because he puts a secret ingredient in his chicken that makes me crave it fortnightly, smartass!

Stopping for lunch on the way back from a camping trip in AZ, I found a jawbreaker dispensing pinball machine (you play pinball with the jawbreaker) in a KFC, but it had disturbing art on the side, of the colonel trying to bash a chicken's head in with his cane. I'd like to see one like this at McDonalds with Ronald McDonald beating a cow with his clown shoe.

http://www.elmoto.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1915&d=1322056692

Allen_okc
23 November 2011, 0745
dam Bill - you may be onto something here... a new kind of game concept... battle of the hamburger icons...

the winner gets to take on KFC kingdom land...

Coninsan
23 November 2011, 0749
dam Bill - you may be onto something here... a new kind of game concept... battle of the hamburger icons...

the winner gets to take on KFC kingdom land...

Dare I ask what how this turns out for Burger king and Wendy?

Richard230
23 November 2011, 0825
Did someone mention chickens? :)

Now if you want perpetual motion machines, these are your devices. The eat everything in front of them and fertilize everything behind them. And then they go around and start it all over again. :rolleyes:

billmi
23 November 2011, 0828
(There's a life-size statue of the Col. at my local KFC. Freaks me right the **** out.)

Those used to be pretty common. Same with the Bob's Big Boy statues. Almost every McDonalds had a life size Ronald sitting on a bench in the 70s (and Hamburglurs and Grimmaces), and Jack In The Box (they had a ton of characters) and Burger King used to have them too. But where did they all go? Could have been the flying saucer time machines, but I think they're in some junkyard like those graveyards they have for old airplanes. That would make an awesome paintball field.

teddillard
23 November 2011, 0844
holy **** where are my meds

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RONALD-MCDONALD-LIFE-SIZE-SITTING-PLAYLAND-STATUE-RARE-/270852066395?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f100a8c5b

notes:
1) do NOT google Ronald McDonald Statue in Google Images at work.
2) no doubt, liveforphysics is thinking, just what the hell kind of electric motorcycle group IS this??!?
3) meds didn't help. i have to go talk to the colonel now, brb.
4) do these guys look like aliens or what?? caught red handed. wait. i think they work for the government? :O

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8AgDmfJ41mw/R7pO8yOkFRI/AAAAAAAAAUw/xrzIutcjKa0/s320/ronald1.jpg

Allen_okc
23 November 2011, 0857
Thats got to be the funniest thing i ever saw...

Allen_okc
23 November 2011, 0901
he already knows im ate up... :)


holy **** where are my meds

2) no doubt, liveforphysics is thinking, just what the hell kind of electric motorcycle group IS this??!?

ZoomSmith
23 November 2011, 0912
I fear the integrity of the forum is in serious jeopardy with this thread.
(thanks for the levity)

teddillard
23 November 2011, 0928
(thanks for the levity)

WHAT LEVITY THIS IS SERIOUS **** HERE MAN!!!

(And, in the spirit of the holiday, a Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! "...As god is my witness. I thought turkeys could fly.")

Allen_okc
23 November 2011, 1002
WKRP - you where there too...

yeah everyone - HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!! - here come the phone cops...

Warren
23 November 2011, 1303
I just noticed that Ted's bike is the exact same color as Ronald's suit. Coincidence? I don't think so. :-)

Richard230
23 November 2011, 1544
Since you guys area all over the map with this thread, check out this funny South African VW ad poking fun at motorcycle riders:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/23/vw-pokes-fun-at-motorcyclists-in-new-spot-for-south-africa/

The ending is sure boring, though.

teddillard
23 November 2011, 1708
I just noticed that Ted's bike is the exact same color as Ronald's suit. Coincidence? I don't think so. :-)

Yes.. yes... it was like I saw it in a dream. Ronald, and my bike. And then there were the pod people (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36833995@N00/6023023348/). And then they took Ronald away. And then, the probes. :O

DaSunny
13 April 2014, 0306
Obviously they would cover up free energy if it existed...
http://outfacted.com/4-no-free-energy-ever

I mean if everyone had unlimited energy, then the people in power would be... out of power (pun :D)