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podolefsky
29 July 2012, 2121
Including the current record holder Monster Tajma...but no motorcycles :(

I might have to head down there, just so there's at least one el moto that makes it to the top this year...oh wait...$1400 registration fee. Never mind.

http://director.usacracing.com/ppihc/files/pdfs/competitor_list.pdf

Hugues
29 July 2012, 2243
1400 usd :O
that's a crazy amount of money just for a race.

But that would be way cool to have someone from Elmoto to do it.

Why don't we pool some money from the forum users, we put some money on a paypal account and see how much we can get.
WHen is the deadline to register ?
But then you agree to have a real time tracking tool like iphone app or something we can use to track you, and it would be even more cool if we could see in real time:
amps, volts, Ah, total km, speed, total ascent,...
And then photo/video to share after the event.
You'll be our horse !

With that i'm ready to put in 100 usd.

Others interested to put money in ?

podolefsky
30 July 2012, 0504
Wow, thanks Hugues. That's a huge gesture, but please...spend that money on your bike.

I'm not even sure I have enough battery to make it to the top in under 20 minutes...but since it's only 2 hours away, I'm going to head down there some day just to ride it and see.

Hugues
30 July 2012, 0549
i was discussing this with a guy here over lunch,

what is the race exactly, km, time, elevation, you need to finish under a certain time ?

lugnut
30 July 2012, 0720
i was discussing this with a guy here over lunch,

what is the race exactly, km, time, elevation, you need to finish under a certain time ?

http://www.usacracing.com/ppihc

Hugues
30 July 2012, 0802
looks like 20 km and 1'400m elevation, if i'm not mistaken,

i can do this with my mountain bike with 10AH pack 80 V, in 30 minutes maybe

you're sure you don't have enough ?

podolefsky
30 July 2012, 0828
I have enough. It's whether I have enough to do it in under 20 min. There isn't a cutoff, but I'm not sure over 20 would be a good way to represent el motos. A Nissan leaf did it faster than that.

picaroon
30 July 2012, 0924
I've attempted a few sums, I think they are right.......:o

So the easy one is, to complete the 12.42mile race in less than 20mins your average speed must be faster than 37.26mph

The average gradient is 7.2% or 1:14

The fastest time is 9mins 52.278seconds, thats an average speed of 78.26mph

podolefsky
30 July 2012, 0954
Chip Gates did it in about 12:50, a little under 60 mph. but that included dirt sections which slowed him down a lot. It's now all paved.

40 mph average seems doable.

Allen_okc
30 July 2012, 1047
:cool: NOAH - NOAH - NOAH - He's our man, if he cant do it no one can...

Allen_okc
30 July 2012, 1049
:cool: how about liveforphysics stepping up to the plate??? he's fast and light...

Hugues
30 July 2012, 1205
you've got a fan club building up :rolleyes:

podolefsky
30 July 2012, 1244
I think registration ended 6/15, so too late anyway. But, I am seriously considering a run next year...a really light weight bike that can handle tight corners.

Not sure about an overpowered bicycle (I don't have a deathwish like LFP), but something like a 250 chassis. Light weight frame and wheels to save energy on all the climbing and corner accelerations. Chip's bike was a monster, but actually way to big and heavy for the PP course.

Allen_okc
30 July 2012, 1247
NOAH - NOAH - NOAH - He's our man, if he cant do it no one can...

I'll chip in for the fee...

podolefsky
30 July 2012, 1421
If you all want to send me money, help me buy this so I can build the PP elmoto special

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Aprilia-RS250-Rolling-Chassis-title-and-street-registration-/320954241492

Nuts & Volts
30 July 2012, 1906
If you all want to send me money, help me buy this so I can build the PP elmoto special

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Aprilia-RS250-Rolling-Chassis-title-and-street-registration-/320954241492

That bike is nasty good lookin. Man i almost went with a 250 racer instead of my R6 chassis. But knew I would run out of room for batteries. Nice 5-6kWh of lipo may make that thing a nice weekend racer!

podolefsky
30 July 2012, 2043
That bike is nasty good lookin. Man i almost went with a 250 racer instead of my R6 chassis. But knew I would run out of room for batteries. Nice 5-6kWh of lipo may make that thing a nice weekend racer!

I know - it's got me all thinkin...

People drop 500's in these bikes, so I think there's more room in there than your typical 250.

gijoe460
30 July 2012, 2227
Man.....
That is a sweet Aprilla...

but,... I would totally chip in to get one of us up on the mountain...
I am in for a good cause!

Hugues
31 July 2012, 0407
that would be really great to have an "elmoto horse" in the race next year ! or why not more than one.

But what kind of bike is needed then ?
- Probably good hill climbing capabilities
- not necessarily high top speed
- agility to take all these turns
- cooling of the motor ? not sure, race is short and temperature not so high at that altitude ?

Noah: you can't modifiy one of your bike for this race ? you have the other one for your daily commute. Maybe then you can experiment with a kick-ass LiPo pack ?

Allen_okc
31 July 2012, 0558
i have to disagree with the 1997 Aprilia RS250 as the bike you need - you need something like a honda elsinor with an aluminum frame and fairings, just my thought...

when i was running hair scramble in my days, the elsinor was light and did extremely well in the allegheny mountains of west virginia...

just my thought - this could be a good start for everyone here to build the perfect wall crawler for the race...

podolefsky
31 July 2012, 0729
If you've run a bike like that, I trust your judgement. Just seems like the RS250 is a modern bike with modern suspension, it's actually a race bike (unlike, say, a Ninja 250), and it has a pretty roomy frame for a 250. The original bike is 310 lb, and I'm betting I could build it electric at about the same with lipo.

The RS250 does have an aluminum frame and fairings (unless you mean aluminum fairings...but note that the RS250 I found has carbon fairings)

I've watched Chip's on-board video, and he was dragging a knee through a lot of the turns. He was in 9th overall (for the whole field, including cars) until the dirt, where he lost a ton of time. But now it's all paved, so a sportbike is what you want.

I think you want to set a target time and build the bike to hit it with the least weight possible. If you average 60 mph, you'll beat Chip's time of 12:50. That would make it the fastest electric bike, but it wouldn't really be a fair comparison to Chip since he had to contend with dirt. There are going to be all kinds of records broken this year just because of the paving.

PP is an average 7% grade. My calculations tell me that a faired bike, averaging 60 mph on a 7% grade for 12.42 mi, needs about 3 kWh. But that doesn't include all the accelerations (156 turns). When Chip did it I believe he had a 12 kWh pack and used about 2/3 of it, but he had a 600lb bike and was really hammering. I think you'd be safe with 8-9kWh, but it would take some testing to be sure.

Motor selection is going to be huge. A single Agni would be about the best power/weight, but it might not have enough total power. With a light enough bike, you could maintain speed through a lot of the turns, but out of the hairpins you really need the power to get up to speed quickly.

An enertrac would save space for cells, but again not sure about having enough power. I did read that Ripperton thought the Lightning bike braked better due to having less mass in the frame, but did worse over bumps because of unsprung weight.

Anyway...lots of design considerations.

Allen_okc
31 July 2012, 0820
sorry Noah i didnt realize its all paved now, i was thinking of something that was more for dirt, not street - are you sure you want to take on knee scrapping asphalt???

if you think you can handle it, im still in on the moneys support...

Allen_okc
31 July 2012, 0828
here is some video of the hill climb of the past races...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtImerWNbJE&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00-Bh16Lah8&feature=fvwrel

podolefsky
31 July 2012, 0834
sorry Noah i didnt realize its all paved now, i was thinking of something that was more for dirt, not street - are you sure you want to take on knee scrapping asphalt???

if you think you can handle it, im still in on the moneys support...

Do I want to? YES. Is it a good idea? My wife doesn't think so...

An RGV250 is another possibility. Another race ready 250.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_RGV250

Allen_okc
31 July 2012, 0838
Then lets build a pikes peak racer...


Do I want to? YES. Is it a good idea? My wife doesn't think so...

An RGV250 is another possibility. Another race ready 250.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_RGV250

podolefsky
31 July 2012, 1134
Then lets build a pikes peak racer...

You have some funders lined up? ;)

Honestly, the GSX-E with an 8kWh lipo pack would be a good contender. I'd have to watch motor heat, but I think I could keep the average power down and still make a good time. It would be about a $5000 investment in the pack and such.

Problem is, I don't really want to race that bike. For one, it's not really made for a relatively low speed, twisty course. But mostly, I just don't want to lay it down. I'd cry.

Starting from scratch, I'd estimate about a $10-12k project.

Allen_okc
31 July 2012, 1155
would zero motorcycle or brammo motorcycle be interested in supplying a bike for leasing - would be a good promotion move for them, otherwise we have a year to figure it out - donated parts, cash, etc...

Allen_okc
31 July 2012, 1212
how about using a Rotrax bike converted to electric - anyone have opinion about the little bike on pikes peak...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X73weQq3ksM&feature=related

podolefsky
31 July 2012, 1245
would zero motorcycle or brammo motorcycle be interested in supplying a bike for leasing - would be a good promotion move for them, otherwise we have a year to figure it out - donated parts, cash, etc...

A stock Zero S ZF9 would make it to the top in a decent time, but not an impressive time.

Interesting little thing about the ZF9. It's an 18s6p lipo pack (EIG cells I believe). That's 66.6V nominal, 120Ah. The 0913 on that bike will handle 96V, but you'd need a different controller. But, in theory you could buy a ZF9, rearrange into 27s4p, and get a controller that will handle 100V nominal and actually have a pretty quick little bike.

Why they didn't just do this? Not sure - but I suspect the higher voltage controller, charger, and BMS would cost more. Plus, with 120Ah and a 400Ah controller, you'll never pull more than about 3.3C. So a big safety margin.

podolefsky
31 July 2012, 1253
how about using a Rotrax bike converted to electric - anyone have opinion about the little bike on pikes peak...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X73weQq3ksM&feature=related

Sweet ride, but going 80+ mph up PP on that would scare the crap out of me.

protomech
31 July 2012, 1330
I did some price-hunting for the sevcon controllers a little bit ago, for a particular size the different voltages didn't seem to affect the price much.

Delta-Q likely is the same price for whatever output voltage you want.

BMS is custom anyhow. In the quantities they're selling a small increase in parts cost will make no difference.

The ZF9 bike is actually 3 ZF3 modules in parallel. Each module is 18s2p (40Ah). 4p doesn't divide evenly 3 ways.

Nuts & Volts
31 July 2012, 1346
I did some price-hunting for the sevcon controllers a little bit ago, for a particular size the different voltages didn't seem to affect the price much.

Delta-Q likely is the same price for whatever output voltage you want.

BMS is custom anyhow. In the quantities they're selling a small increase in parts cost will make no difference.

The ZF9 bike is actually 3 ZF3 modules in parallel. Each module is 18s2p (40Ah). 4p doesn't divide evenly 3 ways.

The way they are bussed/stacked up would allow you to change the series count easily, but you would need a new mounting, BMS, and paralleling PCB/wires made up.

podolefsky
31 July 2012, 1347
I did some price-hunting for the sevcon controllers a little bit ago, for a particular size the different voltages didn't seem to affect the price much.

Delta-Q likely is the same price for whatever output voltage you want.

BMS is custom anyhow. In the quantities they're selling a small increase in parts cost will make no difference.

The ZF9 bike is actually 3 ZF3 modules in parallel. Each module is 18s2p (40Ah). 4p doesn't divide evenly 3 ways.

That's true. Actually, I believe the sevcon they use will go to 116V. So really you'd just need a new charger (72v deltaq won't go over 100v max).

I get that they just stuck 3 ZF3 packs in parallel. I was just thinking that 27s4p would perform better than 18s6p, given that the controller is the current bottleneck in the system.

In CO, I can get a ZF9 for about $8k after a tax credit.

Allen_okc
31 July 2012, 1353
it would scare me too, but the little rotax bikes handle very well, the bike would surprise you - the ZF9 sounds interesting...


Sweet ride, but going 80+ mph up PP on that would scare the crap out of me.

lets say they handed one to us "SPONSOR" and it was modified like you said, would that be the ultimate for this kind of race???

podolefsky
31 July 2012, 2239
lets say they handed one to us "SPONSOR" and it was modified like you said, would that be the ultimate for this kind of race???

um...pretty sure that's a 60 year old speedway bike. might be fun if you wanted to drift through all the corners...

teddillard
01 August 2012, 0238
Here's my formula for building race bikes. Of which I've built, uh, zero. Take a look at what ran last year (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/525/10392/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Pikes-Peak-Hill-Climb-Motorcycle-Results.aspx), and what won. Build one of those. :D

Here's the 250 that won: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mike_rogers/4349883573/

That said, I think you need to look at something along the lines of this (http://www.multistrada.ducati.com/jspducatimultistrada/techspecs.jsp).

http://www.ducati.com/cms-web/upl/MediaGalleries/120/MediaGallery_120619/MTS-1200_2011_W_[1067x600].jpg

REALLY sad to see them close the dirt portion. That's what made the race so awesome, IMO.

In the process, I found some information about the Climb to the Cloud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Washington_Hillclimb_Auto_Race)s, which was run once again in 2011... on the Mt Washington Auto Road. oooOOOOOoooooOO... http://www.climbtotheclouds.com/

Allen_okc
01 August 2012, 0535
um...pretty sure that's a 60 year old speedway bike. might be fun if you wanted to drift through all the corners...

Sorry Noah you miss understood, i was talking about the ZF9 being sponsored to the cause... but personally i would use a rotax bike, but im an old fart who likes old school stuff...

Allen_okc
01 August 2012, 0559
not so old with the rotax racing, just this year...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPkukFkEKDk&feature=relmfu

this bike with some modification would be cheaper and very fast... even though it is used for circle dirt track, ive seen these bikes on the street kick some serious arse - forgive me, not sure why i want to defend this bike...

but the more modern bikes do look a lot better and handle a lot better... i'll do what i can to support you what ever bike you choose...

podolefsky
01 August 2012, 0845
Here's my formula for building race bikes. Of which I've built, uh, zero. Take a look at what ran last year (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/525/10392/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Pikes-Peak-Hill-Climb-Motorcycle-Results.aspx), and what won. Build one of those. :D

Here's the 250 that won: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mike_rogers/4349883573/

REALLY sad to see them close the dirt portion. That's what made the race so awesome, IMO.

agreed. the dirt was the heart and soul of the race. but now it'll just be something different, still good fun.

you might be right that a DS sort of thing would be better. i'm not sure if the ability of a bike like that on hairpins would outweigh the performance of a sportbike on the broader turns and straights. it's a whole new ballgame now.



not so old with the rotax racing, just this year...

this bike with some modification would be cheaper and very fast... even though it is used for circle dirt track, ive seen these bikes on the street kick some serious arse - forgive me, not sure why i want to defend this bike...

but the more modern bikes do look a lot better and handle a lot better... i'll do what i can to support you what ever bike you choose...

i definitely get your point. they're super light, and with the right riding style might be able to do well. i just don't think they're the best choice...if nothing else, because there's almost no room for batteries.

I really appreciate all the support (especially since this is just a pipe dream at this point)

frodus
01 August 2012, 0903
Think my evfr could make it? 5kwh of headway and an ac20. ....

Nuts & Volts
01 August 2012, 0922
With a blower fan on my Agni I bet my 7.7kWh R6 would be pretty good. Top Speed may be an issue... anyone know what kind of peak speeds the motorcycle are getting on the course?


Think my evfr could make it? 5kwh of headway and an ac20. ....

I think that would do pretty well. Would be a really deep discharge if you are pushing it hard.

frodus
01 August 2012, 0935
I have an extra 640wh of batteries I could rig up as a buddy pack in series and go 36s maybe 38s and 1280wh if I'm careful.

Got me thinking.

podolefsky
01 August 2012, 1008
The calculations I did told me that 4.5kWh would be enough to get to the top, just not very fast. But I think if you concentrated on holding speed through the turns, went light on the throttle and didn't spend too much energy accelerating, you could do a sub 20 minute run.

Eva Hakansson's bike did the climb a few years ago in 16:55 (she wasn't riding due to a wrist injury). Pretty sure that was with a Motenergy 0709, Alltrax 7245, and TS pack (~7kWh). But it might have been an A123 pack (they've apparently upgraded).



In other news...I just showed a friend of mine that Aprilia RS250 rolling chassis (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-Aprilia-RS250-Rolling-Chassis-with-title-and-street-registration-/320954241492?forcev4exp=true#ht_6230wt_1167) and he got very excited (and said something about writing me a check). I might have just found a sponsor...

podolefsky
01 August 2012, 1013
Top Speed may be an issue... anyone know what kind of peak speeds the motorcycle are getting on the course?

I know some of the cars hit 150+ mph on the long straights. Quick bikes are definitely over 100, but it's more about acceleration than top speed for most of the course.

frodus
01 August 2012, 1017
It'd be fun just to have a time and compete....

Allen_okc
01 August 2012, 1038
would electric motorcycles be in its own class???

podolefsky
01 August 2012, 1044
It'd be fun just to have a time and compete....

exactly my thinking. i'd actually consider riding the GSX-E, just riding somewhat conservatively.



would electric motorcycles be in its own class???

there's no electric motorcycle class (yet). there is an electric car class, but el motos have to enter the exhibition class. just not enough el motos, but if we could get 4-5 they might make a class for us.

podolefsky
01 August 2012, 1214
Just checked and with 5 competitors we could get a separate electric motorcycle class.

Nuts & Volts
01 August 2012, 1338
If things work out I would think that our Gen2 OSU bike would be very competitive up Pike Peaks. It might be worth it for us to drive out next year if the timing is good.

Yea my R6 wouldn't be competitive for records, but could probably put in a quality time.

podolefsky
01 August 2012, 1420
OSU bike + R6 + my bike would be 3. If Travis shows up, that's 4. One more and we've got a class.

This would be sweet - and historic. First electric motorcycle field at PP.

Anyone?

Warren
01 August 2012, 1504
"how about using a Rotrax bike converted to electric - anyone have opinion about the little bike on pikes peak..."

Like this one?

http://weald-evt.co.uk/gallery_speedway.html

http://electricspeedway.posterous.com/

podolefsky
01 August 2012, 1724
You know what...screw it. My bike just needs a lipo pack and its ready to race. If I lay it down, I'll just rebuild it (again).

Warren
01 August 2012, 1837
Ted,

"That said, I think you need to look at something along the lines of this."

Have you seen this?

http://www.electricbike.com/dogati-build/

Warren

Brutus
01 August 2012, 2150
OSU bike + R6 + my bike would be 3. If Travis shows up, that's 4. One more and we've got a class.

This would be sweet - and historic. First electric motorcycle field at PP.

Anyone?I think we will be able to make it for next year, there is 5!

podolefsky
01 August 2012, 2203
I think we will be able to make it for next year, there is 5!

Rock on!

I think if we can get our own class entry fee is $400 per rider if you get it way in advance (like January). Not cheap, but it would be worth it to me to have the first el moto class race.

Hugues
02 August 2012, 0117
I would really love to join, really.

But I wonder what is more difficult:
ship my bike from Switzerland to Colorado or
get my fatass 300 kgs bike from the start to the top, without melting my motor, LOL !

Especially that I don't even have a rolling chassis yet :)

Allen_okc
02 August 2012, 0550
You know what...screw it. My bike just needs a lipo pack and its ready to race. If I lay it down, I'll just rebuild it (again).

love ya man - like i said any bike you choose, i'll go along with and i will definitely chip in on the entree fees for you... any word on that sponsor...

:D i bet if you hear the word rotrax again you'll scream...

Allen_okc
02 August 2012, 0553
:cool: but i think i'll build a EV rotrax and enter too, then i'll whoop your arse with it... as i ducks and runs away from Noah...

i just wanted to add that im going to that race when you ride there, its not that far from oklahoma...

Allen_okc
02 August 2012, 0617
I would really love to join, really.

But I wonder what is more difficult:
ship my bike from Switzerland to Colorado or
get my fatass 300 kgs bike from the start to the top, without melting my motor, LOL !

Especially that I don't even have a rolling chassis yet :)

i will definitely trailer my chopper to it - we can skype the race so everyone can watch and kinda be there...

Allen_okc
02 August 2012, 0618
Noah, stay with us, because this is a really good ideal you have...

Allen_okc
02 August 2012, 0835
pikes peak road course link...

http://director.usacracing.com/ppihc/files/pdfs/map.pdf

podolefsky
02 August 2012, 1911
What do you all think of this idea. In CO, I can get a $6k tax credit on a Zero S ZF9. If I rearrange the pack into 27s4p, it's 100V, 80Ah. The 0913 version has better cooling, plus forced air from the body design, so heat should be less of an issue than a stock 0913.

The reason I started thinking about this again is that a friend of mine races his supermoto against SV650s and beats them on tight courses. With a few mods, a Zero S is basically a small supermoto. I'm a mountain biker, so that sort of riding suits me anyway.

Dunno - just thinking, for a little more than the price of a new 8kWh pack, I could get a whole bike that's lighter than my GSX-E and I'm not as worried about laying down.

Hugues
02 August 2012, 2250
What do you all think of this idea. In CO, I can get a $6k tax credit on a Zero S ZF9. If I rearrange the pack into 27s4p, it's 100V, 80Ah....

Docbass on endless sphere forum has detailed posts on his zero , he also wants to upgrade the pack, might have done it already .

I personally think it would be a greater achievement to run the race with a bike you built yourself.

podolefsky
02 August 2012, 2326
I'm very likely going to get to ride up the climb this Saturday. Not the race...the road is open on Sat. Will report back if I do.

Hugues
02 August 2012, 2345
I'm very likely going to get to ride up the climb this Saturday. Not the race...the road is open on Sat. Will report back if I do.

That would be great if you could record and share your track with an app like GPS Motion X on iPhone or similar ,

Then I can compare with some hills we got around here .

Allen_okc
03 August 2012, 0528
What do you all think of this idea. In CO, I can get a $6k tax credit on a Zero S ZF9. If I rearrange the pack into 27s4p, it's 100V, 80Ah. The 0913 version has better cooling, plus forced air from the body design, so heat should be less of an issue than a stock 0913.

The reason I started thinking about this again is that a friend of mine races his supermoto against SV650s and beats them on tight courses. With a few mods, a Zero S is basically a small supermoto. I'm a mountain biker, so that sort of riding suits me anyway.

Dunno - just thinking, for a little more than the price of a new 8kWh pack, I could get a whole bike that's lighter than my GSX-E and I'm not as worried about laying down.

i like that ideal, see if you can get them to supply you with what you need to upgrade it... its good advertisement for them...

Allen_okc
03 August 2012, 0640
this is just for my thought on fabricating a pikes peak bike for myself - i dont want suggestions of any motorcycle brand or company or type, but one that is custom scratch built for this type of racing purpose only...

this is my thoughts of what this motorcycle would have to be able to do;

A.) Distance - 25 mile range

B.) barebone frame no fancies, light weight

C.) short wheel base for hairpin turns

D.) low gearing for steep incline

E.) a lot of motor torque

F.) fatty street tires front and back, hard rubber, high speed

G.) a saddle that will help with controlling the bike and allowing you to work the curves

H.) question - is a rear suspension needed

I.) question - roll bar

J.) question - is a fairing needed

K.) question - type of motor

L.) question - battery configuration example 18s5p



if you all could describe or change this configuration and answer questions and give opinions about the perfect pikes peak motorcycle, please feel free to give your input...

EVGator
03 August 2012, 0946
Just read this thread front to back. I think it is a great idea. I'll talk to the guys at the University about attending. Because we may not be able to do all of the North American TTXGP races for 2013, Pike's Peak is definitely an option. And affordable!

Allen_okc
03 August 2012, 1117
:cool: right on EVGator - that forms a new class of racing for the EV motorcycles!!!

podolefsky
11 August 2012, 1730
Just finished a ride up PP. I started at the toll station. It's 6 mi to the start line, so the total ride up was 18.5 mi (and 18.5 back down). I had 80% (of 60Ah) at the start line and 25% at the top, so I used 55% of my pack (33Ah or about 2.4kWh) to do the race course. Due to traffic, which was heavy today, my average speed was about 25 mph (on the race course). So it took me about 30 min.

So now I know I can easily make it to the top. I want to go back when there's less traffic, like during the week, and try for a faster run. Videos just don't do it justice - it is a very intimidating ride. A lot of very tight switch backs and crazy drop offs. The exposure is pretty scary - being up near 14,000 feet with no trees, you have a beautiful and frightening view to the valley about 6000 ft down.

http://www.colorado.edu/physics/EducationIssues/podolefsky/EV_project/noah_pphc%20(Small).jpg

podolefsky
11 August 2012, 1952
Some data. This is speed vs distance from my GPS. I was stuck behind slow cars most of the time (sometimes really, painfully slow). I got to open it up a bit between 6-8 mi.

I did some more calculations and I think I could keep up this faster pace for the whole climb and stay under 4 kWh. That would give me a time under 18 min. Mostly depends on how much speed I can carry through corners to reduce the energy used accelerating.

http://www.colorado.edu/physics/EducationIssues/podolefsky/EV_project/pphc_8-11-12_speed%20(Small).PNG

Hugues
11 August 2012, 2305
Great report ! thanks.

So you're GO for next year's race then ?

I saw your bike before but i must really say again it looks way cool !

teddillard
12 August 2012, 0140
Awesome Noah! Sounds like a blast!

podolefsky
12 August 2012, 1000
I'm definitely ready to race next year. It would be AWESOME to get 4-5 more electric bikes to enter and form our own class. (and save about $1000 each on entry fee).

podolefsky
12 August 2012, 1059
Two sub 10 min times already - on Multistradas.

http://www.usacracing.com/ppihc/ts/2012

Still waiting for the electrics.

podolefsky
12 August 2012, 1429
Oh hell yes!

Electrics are setting great times:

Toyota TEV EVP002 ... 10:15
i-MIEV Evolution ... 10:30
Lightning XP2 ... 11:00.
M3 electric BMW ... 11:59
HER-02 ... 11:59
iMIEV ... 15:10

The last iMIEV is bone stock, driven by the first woman electric driver (http://www.tflcar.com/2012/08/beccy-gordon-is-about-to-make-history-at-the-2012-pikes-peak-international-hill-climb/) at PPIHC.

Tajima is yet to start.

lugnut
12 August 2012, 1710
Tajima is yet to start.

He started. Crashed and burned at a 1/2 mile. He is uninjured but his ride is in bad shape, so I hear.

Richard230
12 August 2012, 1801
Speaking of Pikes Peak, here is an Audi (or is it a Ducati?) commercial showing the two vehicles racing down the mountain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=x_Mk3IwEBiY

podolefsky
12 August 2012, 1802
He started. Crashed and burned at a 1/2 mile. He is uninjured but his ride is in bad shape, so I hear.

I heard it was just a fire, no crash.

Bummer.

It's apparently snowing at the top, they're stopping racers at Glen Cove.

podolefsky
12 August 2012, 1949
So...from what I've been reading, some competitors didn't even get to run today. To big a field, and also weather. There is talk of using qualifying to limit the field size next year.

If so, that could mean that you can't just sign up and go race. If we were to get an electric motorcycle class, we'd have to do well enough in qualifying to get into the field.

Or, we might just have to convince them to make the class. The vintage class doesn't have to compete with the unlimited for field spots. Not sure how they're going to do it.

podolefsky
12 August 2012, 2000
Huge props to the electric field. Especially Fumio Nutahara and Toyota. 1st place in electric, 6th OVERALL, and 4th fastest car.

The top 3 cars were 1 Time Attack, 1 Open, and 1 Unlimited. That means if Nutahara was in any of those fields, he would have gotten 2nd. And it means he most of a field including 1000 HP+ gassers.

A little about that car from here (http://ae-plus.com/news/toyota-ev-contests-pikes-peak):

"...the EVP002 is powered by a 42kWh lithium-ceramic battery and a pair of electric motors offering a total output of 350kW and 900Nm.The motors are mated to a single-speed transmission."

Warren
13 August 2012, 0754
"The top 3 cars were 1 Time Attack, 1 Open, and 1 Unlimited. That means if Nutahara was in any of those fields, he would have gotten 2nd."

And since Tajima was faster in qualifying, it is fun to speculate that, but for a battery fire, an electric might have been fastest...period! Maybe next year.

Warren
13 August 2012, 0839
To anyone thinking of racing up Pikes Peak. This is a hill climb. Power-to-weight is huge.

The first Pikes Peak Champion, in 1916, was 22-year old Rea Lentz from Washington. His Romano Demon Special was the smallest car entered and he was the youngest driver. His time was 20:55.6, all on dirt. He beat pros in big factory cars...Delage, Cadillac, Hudson, Stutz, Duesenberg.

The 1922 race was won in a winning time of 19:50.8, by 23-year-old Noel Bullock, who raced a modified 1916 Ford Model T truck that he drove all the way from North Platte, Nebraska. Most of the drivers at that time drove top cars like Packard, Ford, Hudson, Mercer and Essex. Again, the smallest car in the race.

podolefsky
13 August 2012, 0914
Definitely true. You can't forget low speed handling though. The two fastest bikes were Multistrada 1200s. 150 HP and 530 lb (wet). Not exactly light weights, but I think their handling in tight corners pays off. A GSXR 1000 makes 191 HP and weighs 448 lb, but I'm not sure it would take all the hairpins well.

Or, maybe the gixxer would stomp everyone now that it's paved, and people are just riding the Multistradas because they used to work well on the dirt sections?

Warren
13 August 2012, 1001
"You can't forget low speed handling though. The two fastest bikes were Multistrada 1200s. 150 HP and 530 lb"

Yes, getting around the corners is very important. Does lots of weight improve cornering? I don't think so. Imagine a Zero XU stripped of lights, kickstand, tupperware...200 pounds, with a 155 pound rider. If you could get it around the turns, and keep it from melting, you could pull 15,600 watts out of it for ten minutes. At that point you would be at the top of the mountain. :-)

podolefsky
13 August 2012, 1014
"You can't forget low speed handling though. The two fastest bikes were Multistrada 1200s. 150 HP and 530 lb"

Yes, getting around the corners is very important. Does lots of weight improve cornering? I don't think so. Imagine a Zero XU stripped of lights, kickstand, tupperware...200 pounds, with a 155 pound rider. If you could get it around the turns, and keep it from melting, you could pull 15,600 watts out of it for ten minutes. At that point you would be at the top of the mountain. :-)


Weight makes handling worse. It's just that those bikes are set up for low speed maneuvering, so they handle tight turns well in spite of their weight.

I agree about a Zero. You need enough energy to get to the top quickly, so a stripped down Zero S ZF9 would be pretty good (if you rearranged the pack for higher voltage).

Nuts & Volts
13 August 2012, 1058
Those bikes like low speed manuevering more because of the geometry of the machine. My R6 was built to lean with a small headstock lock to lock. At low speeds its harder to maintain a large lean angle which probably means I would be taking turns much wider than a Ducati Multistrada or Zero. However I have more weight lower in the bike which gives me a boost in low speed stability.

I think you want a machine with lots of torque and steerable geometry to be competitive on this mountain. Lighter weight always helps.

One inherit advantage of an electric is that you won't need to upshift and downshift 156 times each :D savings some time, brainpower and rider energy

podolefsky
13 August 2012, 1109
Having ridden up it, I can definitely say that the low speed torque and simplicity of an electric helps a lot. With that many corners, and the dizzying heights, the less you have to think about the better.

podolefsky
13 August 2012, 1111
If we really want to put together an electric motorcycle class, we need to get on it soon. Registration starts Nov 1, and it might fill up fast. It's also cheaper to register before 12/31.

If we get our own class, it should be $400 each. If not, then exhibition is $800 (before 12/31).

http://www.usacracing.com/ppihc/competitors/registration

BTW, the slowest 250 this year was 15:24. Slowest time overall was 17:14 by a quad modified. I think we could be pretty competitive.

Nuts & Volts
13 August 2012, 1302
Having ridden up it, I can definitely say that the low speed torque and simplicity of an electric helps a lot. With that many corners, and the dizzying heights, the less you have to think about the better.

That's good to know. I will talk to the OSU team more about it and pass some information along to the Virginia Tech team as well. If the OSU team goes my bike will be there, but I'm not sure 100% I want to shell out $400 to race with it. But if I'm the 5th bike...

podolefsky
13 August 2012, 1316
That's good to know. I will talk to the OSU team more about it and pass some information along to the Virginia Tech team as well. If the OSU team goes my bike will be there, but I'm not sure 100% I want to shell out $400 to race with it. But if I'm the 5th bike...

Sweet.

If cost is an issue, we might be able to make a pool to get everyone in. If it meant getting you in, I'd pay $500. (both 'cause I'd like you to go, and because it's better than $800)

Warren
13 August 2012, 1355
"I agree about a Zero. You need enough energy to get to the top quickly, so a stripped down Zero S ZF9 would be pretty good"

I don't think you want the 9 kWh pack. It adds 99 pounds to the weight of the bike over the 3 kWh pack. I figured a 155 pound jockey could just do the course on the 3 kWh pack in ten minutes, if everything was perfect. You are not going to be able to use up 3 times as much energy. You'd be looking at a 7 minute time, and there is no way that motor will eat that much energy without melting, and I don't believe anyone could get around the turns at that pace. Even at a 15 minute pace you are looking to pull 42 hp out of it. So, real world, you have a heavier rider, and everything isn't perfect, so go with the 6 kWh pack. You save 41 pounds, and you might have a chance of using it all up by the top.

podolefsky
13 August 2012, 1508
It took me 2.5 kWh to get to the top on my 425 lb bike, averaging 25 mph. I used that to extrapolate a model that included going 25 mph up a 7% grade and 156 turns.

To beat 15 min, you need to average 50 mph. 12.5 min is 60 mph.

With 50 mph, including harder acceleration out of turns, my bike would take about 5.3 kWh. That's a *very* conservative number. At 60 mph, it would take 5.5 kWh, again conservative.

A 350 lb bike at 50 mph is 5.0 kWh, at 60 mph is 5.4 kWh.

A 200 lb bike at 50 mph is 4.2 kWh, at 60 mph is 4.4 kWh.

Bottom line: with a 3 kWh pack and 200 lb bike, you won't be able to do much better than 20 min. If you want to get into the 12-15 min range, you'd want at least the 6 kWh pack. But that's cutting it really close - 9 kWh is probably more realistic. The added capacity more than makes up for the added weight, I believe.

Warren
13 August 2012, 1547
"It took me 2.5 kWh to get to the top on my 425 lb bike, averaging 25 mph. I used that to extrapolate a model that included going 25 mph up a 7% grade and 156 turns."

Your bike is beautiful, and I am sure it is a great commuter. But as a hill climb race bike you are starting from the wrong end.

These guys climbed it at 30+ mph, on 1 kWh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS6JVhX0d8c&feature=plcp

Check out this old guy's ride.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU6Z5GG0D4c&feature=context-chv

You don't need to build a bike to survive pot holes, and twenty years of riding.

podolefsky
13 August 2012, 1627
Well yeah, if you're on a 40 lb bike and pedaling, it's going to take a lot less energy.

If you want to make a time of 15 min or less, an electric assist bicycle isn't going to get you there.

Warren
13 August 2012, 1914
"If you want to make a time of 15 min or less, an electric assist bicycle isn't going to get you there."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xomCjSPJt_k

I am not trying to be a dick. I am just making the point that you are trying to get a 150 pound, or 250 pound, or whatever rider up X hill in Y time. If you can get him up there on a 50 pound motorized skate board, in reasonable safety, then that is a lot more interesting, and challenging than launching him on an Atlas rocket. At some point you start designing the thing to carry the big motor and battery up there, and the rider becomes a wart on whale.

You have to admit, if you build your stripped down 9 kWh, Zero S, and run it as hard as you can up Pikes Peak, and arrive at the top with more than 3 kWh left, you would have run faster with a 6 kWh pack.

Warren
13 August 2012, 1939
The blogosphere is reporting that it was Tajima's motor, not his battery pack, that caught fire.

Skeezmour
13 August 2012, 1939
You have to admit, if you build your stripped down 9 kWh, Zero S, and run it as hard as you can up Pikes Peak, and arrive at the top with more than 3 kWh left, you would have run faster with a 6 kWh pack.

Unless the 6KWH pack won't put down the power needed. It is all a balancing act.

podolefsky
13 August 2012, 1957
If you can get him up there on a 50 pound motorized skate board, in reasonable safety, then that is a lot more interesting, and challenging than launching him on an Atlas rocket.

you have a clip of Luke's death bike and you're talking about reasonable safety?

podolefsky
13 August 2012, 2011
OK, you talked me into it. I've designed the perfect PP racer.

http://www.colorado.edu/physics/EducationIssues/podolefsky/EV_project/zero_pedals.png

jonescg
13 August 2012, 2015
The blogosphere is reporting that it was Tajima's motor, not his battery pack, that caught fire.

Uh Oh, that was an Evo wasn't it?

Nuts & Volts
13 August 2012, 2030
Uh Oh, that was an Evo wasn't it?

I dont think so. Looks like the Toyota has the Evo Motors http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=37321889&postcount=10

Warren
14 August 2012, 0555
"OK, you talked me into it. I've designed the perfect PP racer."

The cranks add weight. Better to dump the heavy moto rubber, and go with Hookworms, less rotating mass. They are safe at 80 mph, aren't they Luke? :-)

podolefsky
14 August 2012, 0801
"OK, you talked me into it. I've designed the perfect PP racer."

The cranks add weight. Better to dump the heavy moto rubber, and go with Hookworms, less rotating mass. They are safe at 80 mph, aren't they Luke? :-)

Yeah, but you could save up to 100 Wh if you pedal. :D

podolefsky
14 August 2012, 1228
Joking aside - I definitely agree that light weight is key to a good hill climber. It's a balance between weight, power, and battery capacity necessary to hit a certain time goal.

My bike definitely isn't ideal. It's relatively heavy and since it's based on a GSXR 1100, not exactly made for tight corners. But it's the bike I've got...

I'm trying to convince some local folks to build a lightweight dual sport(ish) bike. We'll see.

teddillard
14 August 2012, 1347
...so I've been thinking about this all day. I gave my boss your email, Noah, so he'd know who to blame. :rolleyes:

buUUUht, I keep thinking if I were to do the ride, I'd want to do it on a 600 something. I was watching a few of the videos, and I can't imagine running an 1100 on that course, though I have little doubt a really talented and experienced race rider would be able to take full advantage of a beast-bike. I certainly wouldn't have the sack to run an 1100 at it's top capabilities on a course like that. So my strategy would be a lighter 600 something bike that I'd be able to ride smoother and not depend on the torque so much.

I'm not really saying that would be a race-winner, just that, for my own abilities, it'd be the best, safest run for me and likely the fastest too.

I wouldn't hesitate to do it on the R5, either - a light, stiff bike that's built to be nimble, loaded with a crap-ton of lipo. However, in that case, the ride down would be scarier than the ride up. (Drum brakes... :O )

...the point being, would you be building a top-tier race bike, or close to it, or a bike that is a match to your abilities?

podolefsky
14 August 2012, 1501
oh, definitely a bike closer to my abilities. an AC-20 or dual agni sort of set up would have power about on par with a 600, but with one speed and smooth power delivery, it would be a lot more manageable through the corners.

7 kWh of lipo, motor and controller would come out to about 175 lb. i think a 125 lb chassis isn't out of the question, so that's a 300 lb bike with around 50 HP and torque band a mile wide.

short wheelbase, upright riding position to make it easier to carve through hairpins. i've been mountain biking for about 30 years. a friend of mine that rides supermoto said my mountain biking background would help me transition to supermoto pretty quickly. it's the same body motions, just add 300 lb :)

Warren
15 August 2012, 0707
"dual agni....7 kWh of lipo, motor and controller would come out to about 175 lb. i think a 125 lb chassis isn't out of the question, so that's a 300 lb bike with around 50 HP and torque band a mile wide."

Sounds like a standard Agni powered TTXGP bike to me. You can probably find a used one for what it will cost to build one from scratch. Actually, I would suggest Jozzer's bike instead. :-)

Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h Turnigy pack. FOR SALE.
Jozztek.com

jonescg
15 August 2012, 0713
You could buy an Agni-less Voltron and give that a go :)

Athlon
15 August 2012, 1317
for the same price of dual Agni you should go for an Emrax , 35Kw and less than 12 Kg , a much better weight to power ratio than the old brushed Agni and is also water cooled

podolefsky
15 August 2012, 1333
yup, lots of good options besides dual agni...but none better than knowing someone who already has the equipment (which I might)

gijoe460
29 September 2012, 1426
Noah,
I think I am going to try to have mine ready in time too, sounds like a good goal date. I will be broke of course, so probably no frills or color....
Are you still seeing enough interest on this to have enough for a class?

podolefsky
29 September 2012, 1429
Unfortunately, I haven't seen much interest since the last thread post a month and half ago. We'd need 5 competitors to enter, and we'd need to do it fairly soon. I think registration opens in Nov or Dec.

harlan
29 September 2012, 1458
We're planning on being there, hopefully with at least two bikes, but still working out the details.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

gijoe460
29 September 2012, 1650
I definitely cant say yes or no...I just bought my batteries, I am now waaaaaaaaaaay broke....good thing it doesn't cost too much to charge and discharge to make sure they are good. But next year is the goal to be done, with it at least moving. I will definitely make the drive to come see it if everyone goes.

harlan
04 January 2013, 1514
Hey guys. I just spoke with one of the organizer of the PPIHC guys and as far as he knew, there are currently no electric motorcycles registered for the event. If we are to have any chance of getting our own division, we'd need at least 6 riders and the registration deadline is only 10 days away. Is anybody else still considering running their bike?

EVcycle
04 January 2013, 1525
Love too. Too far away..... :(

podolefsky
04 January 2013, 1535
I'm on the fence. I'd love to do it, but I'm not sure I want to race the GSX-E, and I don't have any prospects for building another bike.

Spaceweasel
04 January 2013, 2148
I'll show up to watch, but I don't think I'll be ready to run.

gasfreeearth
04 January 2013, 2200
Heck I'd love to do it!!!

dice23
05 January 2013, 0712
i'm think'n i could bust chips ass on this one and i'm going to go directly after the one mile top speed this year and i'm very sure that my 1/4 mile time will crush anyone else...lol! derek told me if i wanted to do pikes that he would supply the power! hmmm? now...how the hell do I get the time and funds to do this? oh...not to mention i only have 1000amp controller

EVcycle
05 January 2013, 1111
40? that's all? .... I wish we lived closer.....

Electric Cowboy
06 January 2013, 1235
Registration doesn't end until Jan 14. I will be running this year. And, If we can get 6 racers we will have a chance at getting our own class, and maybe a discount. Does anyone want to race?

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

ETcelerate
15 April 2013, 1840
Lightning to strike Pikes Peak.

Chip Yates to Defend Electric Motorcycle Record at Pikes Peak International Hill Climb with Lightning Motorcycles (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/chip-yates-pikes-peak-lightning-motorcycles-electric/#more-42017)


As the kids in the arcade used to say, it’s on like Donkey Kong. Upon hearing the news that Greg Tracy and Amarok Racing would be making an appearance at the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb, Chip Yates has set aside his tinkering with electric airplanes for the time being, and come out of two-wheeled retirement to defend his title.

Trading in the world’s fastest pizza delivery bike for the Richard Hatfield’s Flying Banana (there really is no good way to write that, sorry Richard), Yates will compete on one of Lightning Motorcycle’s electric superbikes at the 91st running of the Race to the Clouds.

Rivals on the salt, Yates and Hatfield have come together outside of electric motorcycles, as Lightning is providing Yates with battery packs for his Flight of the Century electric airplane challenge. Making a return to Pikes Peak, Yates will compete on the now completely paved course, something he did not do his first time around...

liveforphysics
16 April 2013, 0151
Lightning to strike Pikes Peak.

Chip Yates to Defend Electric Motorcycle Record at Pikes Peak International Hill Climb with Lightning Motorcycles (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/chip-yates-pikes-peak-lightning-motorcycles-electric/#more-42017)

How cool of Chip! Right on! I think if Chip on the lightning gets a clean run, it's going to be a new record for an EV by a fairly large amount. That bike is insanely brutally powerful, and I think Chip has the skills to use it.

Frank
17 April 2013, 1214
Absolutely! The Lightning is very sophisticated and Chip will be outstanding on this machine.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

jazclrint
17 April 2013, 1237
Has everyone not noticed Amarok has 6-time Greg Tracy on their bike, or did it just not make it to the thread?

Skeezmour
17 April 2013, 1446
Yep I have been watching that on facebook. Will be fun to see how the bike performs with such a great rider on it. I'm just happy that there should be lots of great electric racing going on.

jazclrint
17 April 2013, 1504
I am thinking that if this momentum keeps up it could become bigger than the TT Zero. With 8 bikes set to show up to PPIHC, they may not have as many bikes show up, but they might have more bikes finish.

ETcelerate
26 June 2013, 0013
Race coming up this weekend. Cool video posted on PPIHC's fb page.


ZERO S (electric) motorcycle, Rider Ted Richard, burn out at Tech Inspection. No joke!!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201533925815319&set=o.336377937209&type=2&theater

Cool to see that there will be a live stream on PPIHC.com and redbull.tv Nice looking pair of Lightnings, but I think they will only be racing one of them?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1010909_10151645503737210_2012528632_n.jpg

Frank
26 June 2013, 0434
Chip is no longer riding the Lightning but Carlin Dunne is. He has been faster than all the ICE machines and close to the speed of the fastest cars. Last I heard he was faster by 16 seconds than the Ducati he rode last year.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

podolefsky
30 June 2013, 0811
Live coverage:

http://live.redbull.tv/events/243/pikes-peak-international-hill-climb-2013/

podolefsky
30 June 2013, 0931
Not unexpected - we have a new electric motorcycle record.

Carlin Dunne rocked it with a 10:00.694 on the Lightning. Currently in first overall, and over 20 sec ahead of the next fastest bike in the 1205 class.

A huge day for elmotos, and huge congrats to Carlin and Lightning.

Warren
30 June 2013, 1119
And you could actually own the fastest street motorcycle in the world starting @ $38,888, which looks like a bargain compared to the packages from Brusa. Their 50 kW "motorcycle" kit is $22,532. To get Lightning level power, you'd spend $37,728. And you would still need a bike, and a battery pack!

http://insideevs.com/brusa-announces-pricing-for-its-complete-electric-drivetrain-packages/

podolefsky
30 June 2013, 1221
Crap. It's snowing at the top and raining at the bottom, and none of the electric cars have started.

Spaceweasel
30 June 2013, 1338
I'm sitting on a porch with what is normally a great view of Pikes Peak, and I can't even see the mountain right now. Kind of glad I'm not up there right now.

podolefsky
30 June 2013, 1357
Monster Tajima in his e-Runner - 9:46.530, 5th overall right now.

The other electrics are coming in sub 10:25, all top 20, including 62 year old Rod Millen (father of Rhys) in a Toyota EV.

Nobody is going to touch Loeb with a f***ing 8:13.878 (in an 800 HP Peugeot gasser).

Warren
01 July 2013, 0620
Impressive times, but I think we are still waiting on better batteries.

http://insideevs.com/nobuhiro-monster-tajimas-e-runner-wins-in-electric-class-at-2013-pikes-peak-international-hill-climb-places-5th-overall-wvideos/

Richard230
01 July 2013, 0802
It is nice to see the number of Zero's entered in the race. I think they did pretty well, considering they are based upon a production motorcycle and likely didn't have a whole lot of money dumped into the bikes for the race. :cool:

All of the cars running in the race looked like they weren't exactly street legal and were not something that the average guy could head on down to the local motorcycle shop and afford to buy.

yankee1919
01 July 2013, 0834
Great news on the electric vehicles competing with gassers.

podolefsky
01 July 2013, 0922
It is nice to see the number of Zero's entered in the race. I think they did pretty well, considering they are based upon a production motorcycle and likely didn't have a whole lot of money dumped into the bikes for the race. :cool:

All of the cars running in the race looked like they weren't exactly street legal and were not something that the average guy could head on down to the local motorcycle shop and afford to buy.

The Lightning is a production motorcycle...technically. I mean yeah, the Zero's are much more of a true production bike. But the Lightning is, what, $35,000? For a bike that can set a 10.00 on PP (and has a 100+ mile range)? That's pretty mind blowing.

The other cares are definitely not street legal - it's the *unlimited* class.

teddillard
01 July 2013, 1422
So what did Lightning finally place? It looked to me like they didn't - am I missing something? I'll tell you what - motorsports and racing in general has suck coverage, even by their own channels.

OK, just found this on Wired: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/07/lightning-pikes-peak-2013/

...and this on AR: http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/carlin-dunne-lightning-motorcycles-pikes-peak-race-results/

OK, got it:
Exhibition Powersports
Carlin Dunne – 10:00.694, 9 overall
Jake Holden – 10:24.058, 15 overall
James Compton – 10:33.832, 20 overall

podolefsky
01 July 2013, 1441
9th overall. It's on the PPIHC website. Would have been 1st in motorcycle 1205 class, but they were in exhibition.

http://livetiming.net/ppihc/

There was coverage online by Red Bull (that I linked to). They stopped coverage shortly after Loeb's run. PP has never had good coverage - this is the first time they had streaming of any kind, other than Youtube videos 3 days later, and I had to search for it (it wan't linked from the main page).

Warren
01 July 2013, 1451
Ted,

All the electric vehicle times were on the link I posted.

http://insideevs.com/nobuhiro-monster-tajimas-e-runner-wins-in-electric-class-at-2013-pikes-peak-international-hill-climb-places-5th-overall-wvideos/

podolefsky
01 July 2013, 1508
Dunne didn't beat his own previous record of 9:52.819...but he beat the other 1200s by 20 sec. They were saying the course was less grippy than usual due to a lot of rain over the last few days.

I gotta say, as much as I love EV's, a year ago I did NOT think they were going to be so dominant. Tajima came in 5th overall. 2 years ago he would have set a course record (beating his own), and last year his time would have put him in 3rd overall.

The top two ICE vehicles also made a quantum leap, but I have a feeling electrics are going to get better faster. Lightning and Tajima are both small operations. Toyota and Mitsubishi did well, but not that well, so you get the sense they weren't putting their all into it. Imagine if they put the same effort into their electrics as Peugeot did into Loeb's car. The race organizers will have to keep electrics separate just so the ICE categories don't get pounded by them.

teddillard
01 July 2013, 1548
Ted,

All the electric vehicle times were on the link I posted.

http://insideevs.com/nobuhiro-monster-tajimas-e-runner-wins-in-electric-class-at-2013-pikes-peak-international-hill-climb-places-5th-overall-wvideos/

Cool, sorry. Missed that. (I thought your post's link was something about batteries...)

harlan
03 July 2013, 1354
Hi everybody. I'm finally mostly caught up with emails so thought I'd drop by elmoto a noticed a couple of posts on Pikes Peak and figured I'd chime in.

I couldn't be happier with the results of Sundays race. Although we might not have been the top elmoto, our team with their production based Zero bikes held their own. Our team, mostly comprised of amateur racers, landed in the middle of the pack in this race that can only be described as extreme. Out of 83 bikes, our top rider, Jeff Clark (of cleffjark elmoto fame) placed in the top half, a respectable 40th overall beating out plenty of the high displacement supermotos, superbikes, etc and would have put him on the podium of a few of the motorcycle classes. Not bad for a low budget effort running a lightweight, production electric motorcycle. We did implement a number of performance modifications to help his battle up the hill, but fell short on time and were unable to upgrade it to the extent that we had hoped. No doubt we will be better prepared for next year's race!

Much respect to Lightning and Carlin Dunne. Richard Hatfield has developed a superb machine, but there's no sense in comparing this prototype machine to the production Zeros that anybody can purchase from a Zero dealer. I also would like to recognize Amarok's effort. Although expert racer Michael Leon would not have stood a chance against our amateur racers on their production Zero bikes, I think what Michael Uhlarik and Amarok are doing is exceptional and hope this experience does not discourage them from continuing to develop their electric superbike.

podolefsky
03 July 2013, 1441
AWESOME work Harlan...congrats on the Zero's making it up in totally respectable times (you beat Chip Yates' time, so feel free to gloat a little :) )

Obviously most of the attention is on Lightning, but I have to say that opening up a whole new class for elmotos is a huge accomplishment as well. Paves the way for a lot of people, and makes me even more excited for next year.

harlan
05 July 2013, 1638
Thanks, Noah!

We're obviously very excited about the results, not trying to downplay them at all. I think just the fact that all six bikes finished the race, even after three of them were crashed during practice, is a testament to just how well built and how reliable these bikes are.

You can read the full press-release from Zero here:
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/press-releases/july-02-2013-pikes-peak-international.php?stnd&utm_source=zero-db&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=2013%2B25K%2BMiles%2BUS

podolefsky
05 July 2013, 1702
Nice.

It's not totally clear to me what the entrance criteria are for the Z class. Any limitations other than being 100% electric?

harlan
05 July 2013, 1755
Since Hollywood Electrics sponsored the Exhibition Powersports Z Class along with Zero Motorcycles, we filled the grid with Zero bikes. It is my hope that Zeros won't be the only bikes filling the grid in future runs up Pikes Peak. But at least we've proven that the Zero is not only a rugged and reliable bike, but is a great contender. They are a great way for anybody to dip their toe into racing. With the low cost of operation and durability, (yes they crash well, we've proven it), they are a great and affordable racer.

yankee1919
05 July 2013, 2135
We hope to see more participants next year (saving my beer money) and have other motorcycle manufactures to jump in. Farfle race team?

:p