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Aaron Lephart
14 September 2010, 1449
OK I just got back from a ride, I had 73% batt life after running a couple errands so I decided to take a canyon cruise home. There is a 2 lane canyon right next to my house so it works out great. Halfway into my ride the bike cuts out, I look down and see the all to familiar THERMAL CUTBACK error and a reading of 303F for the motor temp!. This sucks as there is no turnouts convenient to pull over. I eventually found someone’s driveway to drive into. I cycled the ignition and the THERMAL CUTBACK error went away and the motor temp was now 186F. Anyhow the rest of the trip went fine and I got home safely. All these problems are since David made adjustments to the VCU so that it would not go crazy when I accelerate on the swingarm stand. Now that seems the least of my problems, and I will gladly take feature back if its gets rid of this. What the heck?

All the best,

Aaron Lephart

Aaron Lephart
14 September 2010, 2002
I just want to add.....I was below 40MPH the whole time and did'nt accelerate allot! In case you where wondering. This should all be stored on the memory stick. When David comes to replace my broken fender mount (common problem) hopefully he will "scan" it.

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

Aaron Lephart
15 September 2010, 1104
It did it again this morning. All I had on me was a cellphone but it grabbed shaky video. I will get it converted and trimmed down for the web. Until then, it jumped from 180F to 333F, went into thermal cutback for about 20 seconds, then jumped back to 184F.

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

Richard230
15 September 2010, 1425
Aaron, are you sure you didn't buy a BMW? :rolleyes:

Aaron Lephart
15 September 2010, 1506
Heh, point taken. The MB vs BMW battles are renowned on the net. Having owned a SLK, I am biased.

I am begining to think this could be a temp sensor going bad or an electrical malfunction. Obviously its not reading the actual temperature. I just wonder if David "fuzzied" some of the settings so that it would'nt accelerate on the swingarm stand and now its affecting something else. I no longer feel comfortable riding it around town, I will wait for David to visit!

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

Aaron Lephart
16 September 2010, 1356
Started it up this morning just to see. Mind you this was after sitting for 9 hours. Right off the bat it read 149F and while drive was engaged it quickly went up and the FANS came on, all the way up to 286F at which point I turned it off.

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

Aaron Lephart
16 September 2010, 1358
BTW I just spoke with David Harvey and he will be coming by tomorrow! All hail David!

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

socaltech
17 September 2010, 1916
Well all is well in Aaron's ride!

i went there this morning and check all his settings, including the one i checked last time, which is the setting that controls the power to the motor from the DMC, which is a normal adjustment, nothing fudged, just corrected.

anyway to the overheat issue...

as i said i went to Aaron's and checked all settings which were still correct, and i loaded his last ride log and played it in front of Aaron and sure enough, high temps and great fluctuation, Aaron was insistent that i test ride his bike to see how it behaved, glad i did.

i took the bike off the rear wheel stand, which i used to keep the bike upright while changing his tail light bracket and started to roll his bike backwards....

clackity clackity clackity

i examined the drive chain, bad condition and loose.

after an adjustment (no charge) and lubed i took it out for a ride and it performed as a good little Enertia should do!!

I loaded the log file of the ride and played it for Aaron so he could see the difference, and understood and also that the chain should be replaced as it still has a tight spot.

So my point is please keep your chain correctly lubed and adjusted as not only does it cause the motor to run hotter due to extra load but its unsafe as it can derail while riding.

PLease check your owners manual for correct procedures.

Aaron Lephart
17 September 2010, 1955
Yes, I am happy to report no thermal cutbacks. I think the threshold for chain tightness is much greater then any sportbike I have had of years past. I look forward to a higher tensile strength O-ring chain in the future! Thanks again David.

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

teddillard
18 September 2010, 0358
"threshold for chain tightness"? HHAHAHAahaa

sorry

So you replaced the rear sprocket but are running the original chain that is kinking/binding and the original front sprocket?

To quote Ed, tsk tsk. Hope you don't call Dave to fix that when your the whole things wears out prematurely, or worse, your chain breaks and wipes out the side of your bike.

I'm allowed to harp on this, since it was lost in the old site, but you NEVER replace only one component in the drive train- it is CRUCIAL you replace both sprockets and the chain. They change as they wear, and replacing only one part will guarantee a mis-match in tolerances between the chain and the sprocket. At the least, you'll accelerate the wear of the entire system. At the worst, you'll cause a failure. I'd think for someone who frets about things like how the brake pads line up on the rotor, this would be a no-brainer. By the way, just for the record, an O-ring chain needs just as much lubrication...

Once again, it's something that a good shop would have known and taken care of- the rear sprocket bolt torque, the chain tension, the lubrication, the drive train as a whole. This entire drama - never happened.

You're giving us backyard mechanics a bad name... :p

For pretty much the final word on chain and sprocket maintenance, read this entire story:
http://www.canyonchasers.net/shop/generic/chain.php

...just about the most complete discussion I've seen. That, and tire pressure, are two things you should understand completely before you get on any bike, ever. Period.

Aaron Lephart
18 September 2010, 0733
Just FYI me saying I was replacing just the rear sprocket was a story. Noone will ever know the real reason for its replacement. :) And no it was'nt from damage or wear. As a owner of a motorcycle for 16 years I do know what to do. And as somoene who worked in the industry for 7.

IMO the decision to use a non O-ring type chain was a Brammo call to squeeze as much range out of the bike as possible. Because when the chain is lubricated it CAN be less drag on the driveline. Problem is unless you lubricate it ALOT it will bind up and end up causeing MORE drag then an O-ring chain. This is my first "bike" with a non O-ring chain, and I hate it. (The chain not the "bike")

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

teddillard
18 September 2010, 0815
Wait, what? Sorry, I have no idea what you mean by this: "Just FYI me saying I was replacing just the rear sprocket was a story." So what are we to believe? You just, in my humble opinion, blew any credibility you have clean out of the water.

The notion that an O-ring chain produces more drag is incorrect, see the link I posted, so the notion they're using one to increase range is also incorrect.

Sorry, but for me? I see you your 16 years and raise you 40. ...as a builder, mechanic, rider and owner for over 40 years your comments and attitudes, as well as your practices, don't inspire confidence in your knowledge. I believe that you are running a chain that has binding and was loose by any standard spec. That, in and of itself tells me you don't understand correct maintenance of the drivetrain. I'm not sure that the previous discussion on torque is on this site or the old one, but I'll repeat it here- torque standards are bolt and material specific, and not at all specific to a manufacturer or application. They're, beyond that, published. And one step more, any qualified mechanic doesn't need to ask what a torque spec is.

Here, to give some semblance of value to continuing this thread, is that reference: http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tables/torque.htm

Maybe I'm seeming a little strident here, but you're making a whole lot of comments and claims about Brammo- a company and it's products that we all hold in pretty high regard, and wish them the best- as well as them personally having a very active role contributing to this group... and now you're saying you're making stories about this stuff? Ranks a pretty clear WTF in my book. Well, not my book, but you know what I'm saying...

Aaron Lephart
18 September 2010, 1148
I can see by merely replying I am going to incite something. You have your views, and that’s fine. I don't agree with everything you say but this is America.

I also don't need to tout any experiences I have to bring credibility to anything. I live in the real world, not on the net.

Am I to blame for some of the problems? Undoubtedly. Is Brammo to blame for some of the problems, yes.

Brammo is a great product. Like all new products they have teething issues. I just would have hoped these where all worked out in the real world and not just over engineered on paper. That’s really all I have to say, I have respect for everyone involved.

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

teddillard
18 September 2010, 1215
Well, actually no, this isn't America, this is the world... which is one of my issues with continually tossing posts out there in a public forum with erroneous assumptions, confusing claims, and possible fabrications, as your "story" comment suggests- especially about a company struggling against everything a startup struggles against in an entirely new market. (Your hopes about product development, with due respect, are delusional- there's not one new product made that isn't developed as a result of some degree of beta testing- and having evaluated an Enertia myself, I feel it is far beyond anything else in the market as far as product development.)

If you don't want to back up what you say with experience and credibility, or at the very least explanations, then forgive me for taking your posts for what they appear to be. I think you need to step back and consider what these threads sound like to a guy who's considering making the leap to buying one of these products- and maybe doesn't have a Dave living within house-call distance.

Aaron Lephart
18 September 2010, 1253
With me not getting responses to people I had previous dealings with at Brammo, where else am I to go but the forums?

As to the "story" mention it's because I am working with a few companies to get aftermarket products made for the Brammo and did'nt want to call attention to it. Nothing as to how things where installed, modified, or as to the incorrect info being given to me by a Brammo employee who had bad information printed in book form!

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

Tony Coiro
18 September 2010, 1310
You know Ted, you should make a thread about tire pressures, just for people (not me, of course) who don't completely understand it. :rolleyes:

teddillard
19 September 2010, 0330
With me not getting responses to people I had previous dealings with at Brammo, where else am I to go but the forums?
...oh yeah, I remember now. You couldn't figure out why the senior management team wasn't answering your calls and emails about torque and stuff, then got yourself booted from the Brammo owners forum and decided to take all of it here. Probably good- now at least Dave can tell his side of the story too.

I know how you feel, I'm still a little ticked off that Brian doesn't share his BrammoBrian's Enertia updates with us anymore... he gets him an Empulse and all of a sudden he's too good for us. ;)

Tony, here you go: http://www.drivegreen.com/Motorcycle_Tire_Pressure.htm Oh this is even better:
http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/infocenter_tiretips.asp?id=31

:p

Aaron Lephart
19 September 2010, 0647
Yeah I won't even bring up Brammoscam, err, Brammofan. Shame the old forums demise took that thread away!

It wasn’t until I questioned the relationship that they stopped answering e-mails. Of course it also coincided with the release of the Empulse. And I know they where busy fielding questions. So that is a good reason.


Al the best,
Aaron Lephart

teddillard
19 September 2010, 0715
Once again insulting personally a respected member of the group. Great form.

gasfreeearth
19 September 2010, 0927
Hey guys, I've had a billion things going on all at once and you know what happens to me when that is going on. First to go, sleep then food then elmoto then beer. I hate when I get to #4. ;) But Aaron, I know you have had motorcycles for a while, and I know you know a lot about them, and so not to gang up on you here, but why did you 1 either not lube the chain every few charges so it didn't bind, ot 2, like I think Ted or someone else mentioned, just put an oring or xring chain on when you had the sprocket replaced? That to me seemed like the no brainer idea, especially since you knew you loved the bike but hated the non o-ring chain already. Did I miss something?

Aaron Lephart
19 September 2010, 1129
I am going to an O-ring chain ASAP. I have an e-mail in to David to ask what he would charge for labor. I have a chain breaker and the tools necessary but I would like to "give back" a little bit for the labor/time he has incurred.

I think my oiling might actually be excessive, it's just the tightening I have to do more often then I am used to. And there is a tight spot in the chain, so may eliminate alot of my issues with a new chain. BTW just turned 3,000 miles! Wahooooo

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

Aaron Lephart
19 September 2010, 1808
OK well more stuff is happening. Upon riding the bike ealier today the temps skyrocket (not pinning the throttle) and then drop down drastically. I got off the bike and grabbed the cellphone in time to capture most of it. Goes into thermal cutback error each time. And after David's superior chain tightening service less then 40 miles ago.

The video is in 3GP format and for whatever reason this webserver I am working with does not stream. Anyhow I had to zip it up.
http://www.smartcar451.com/brammotemp.zip


What you see is the bike stationary with the temp at 298F and then it jumps to 140F. This will happen while the bike is moving to.

David explanied it as the Brammo display only sending out info in a delayed fashion. OK, but it does'nt explain the temperature rising (the video does not show that) and then falling back off so rapidly. Just confused about the whole process.

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

teddillard
20 September 2010, 0343
I am going to an O-ring chain ASAP. I have an e-mail in to David to ask what he would charge for labor. I have a chain breaker and the tools necessary but I would like to "give back" a little bit for the labor/time he has incurred.

Just a thought- hows about you go to a shop, buy the chain from them and ask them to install it? See, the cool thing about that is that they can make a little money on the sale and install, and they'll be able to stand behind the work. Just a thought, it's so crazy it just might work.

OR you could buy a chain on-line and learn how to install it, and do it yourself. I'm sure tons of people here could help offer any advice if you get stuck, I mean, most of us have built motorcycles- a chain install is a piece of cake. I'm down to a latest personal best of 4:26 on it- slow, I know, but my son hid my needlenoses on me.

'Course, then you don't have a private housecall mechanic, and you can't blame Brammo if something, anything goes awry...

Here's what I pray to the god of all that is righteous and rolls on two wheels that Dave responds to you:
1. I'm sorry, I'm tied up right now servicing Brammo customers.
2. I'm sorry, Brammo does not perform installations of non-OEM equipment for obvious liability reasons.

ElMotoMike
20 September 2010, 0856
Yeah I won't even bring up Brammoscam, err, Brammofan. Shame the old forums demise took that thread away!


Aaron, on this forum you will play nice or not at all. I have had it with spammers, trolls and people like you who drive my regulars away. This is a public educational and information forum, not the kiddie school playground. If you want to insult someone, go make your own forum. Do you get understand? Your bull**** wont be tolerated. Now ****ing apologize or dont come back.

And I advise you very strongly to re-read this: http://www.elmoto.net/disclaimer.html

Aaron Lephart
20 September 2010, 1121
Apologize to whom, for what?

BTW Brammo offers a O-ring chain as an accessory, I believe that was the e-mail I got from Danny Watson @ Brammo.

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

Tony Coiro
20 September 2010, 1256
I think we're gonna need to start an application process for new members, this is getting ridiculous.

Aaron Lephart
20 September 2010, 1455
OK I do understand the info on the dash is not REALTIME. However I was told the info is 3-4 seconds old. While in reality I believe it to be about 9-10 seconds of stored date before its displayed. That could explain alot of the issues the bike is having. I will update this!

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

teddillard
21 September 2010, 0421
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Richard230
21 September 2010, 0734
That was fascinating, Ted. :eek:

Aaron Lephart
21 September 2010, 1541
OK hold judgement until my new chain comes in, I am thinking alot of this is related. And if a new chain @ 3k miles sounds premature, it should be noted the previous owner failed to oil it at all in his 400 miles of ownership.

Nice new D.I.D.! http://www.sportbikeaccessoriessearch.com/V_Series_O_Ring_Sealed_Chain_420_x_132_P43049.php

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

Brammoscamp
21 September 2010, 1555
OK hold judgement until my new chain comes in, I am thinking alot of this is related.Coolio! You mean that a new chain might be just what the doctor ordered to cure your obliviousness to the forum administrator asking you to appologize to Brammofan? Anything is possible, I guess. Let us know when it arrives.

Aaron Lephart
21 September 2010, 1600
Interesting name, was the p intentional?

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

Brammoscamp
21 September 2010, 1622
Interesting name, was the p intentional?

All the best,
Aaron Lephart
That's what I told my urologist.

Aaron Lephart
21 September 2010, 1624
Zing, you'll be here all night right?

All the best,
Aaron Lephart

teddillard
21 September 2010, 1657
say g'night elmo

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Richard230
21 September 2010, 1815
Good night, Ted. That put me to sleep too.