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Athlon
25 December 2013, 1005
Anyone is using this controller?

How it works ? How is the support from builder?


Thanks

jonescg
25 December 2013, 1731
I'll wait for Nuts & Volts to chime in, as he used it on the Buckeye bike. Lots of folks running AC car conversions are using it and are quite happy. As for anecdotes, Brett Sutherland had one on his electric DeLorean and while it pushed it around fairly well, it was nothing on the Rinehart PM100DX-R he replaced it with. It struggles a bit with field weakening, so spinning motors past their base speed is not as simple. I believe they have come up with a solution for this, and have even made a higher voltage version. The guys at Tritium are super helpful and very supportive, and very active in the EV scene here in Australia.

Athlon
26 December 2013, 1630
Well , good news about the support , bad news for the field weakening.

Right now i'm fighting with a Sevcon Size8 and I'm tring to get the max out of an induction motor , but the windings are not the best one so I need to work a lot in the weakening region.

Also I found out that Tritium is a little smaller than Size8 for current handling , the Sevcon have a 360Arms for 30 sec , 300Arms for 2 minute and 200 Arms continous , the Wavesculptor looks like canno go over 300Arms :( http://tritium.com.au/products/wavesculptor200-motor-inverter/


One thing I like a lot about Tritium is their software for the motor charaterization .. with Sevcon you have to pay a lot of money to have the "sevcon-man" to come over and analyze your motor. :(

Athlon
26 December 2013, 1731
Anyone knows a controller for bus voltage around 400-700 Volts with a bigger rating for Amps ( is not for a bike is for an electric tugboat )

right now i'm using a setup of 4 Sevcon Size 8 but looks like that even if I can get all the power out of the 4 motor the next limit will be controller

so far other controller I found are :
Piktronik SAC50
Unitek Bamocar D3

but all of them are in the same power class of Tritium , and if I can choose I will choose the one with the best support so up to now Tritium looks the choice.

Nuts & Volts
27 December 2013, 0708
The Tritium is been pretty solid. Only real issue we had with it os that it only does 500Hz max commutation frequency. It'll run higher, but it struggles to limit current and not set a fault. We havent had any issues really below that limit. It's the only motor controller that I believe you can tune your own motor to (beside ipm). Sevcon size10 or missions mc600 would be your next best step up in power. Or maybe a Rinehart. Support from Tritium and Rinehart have been great in my experience. A scott drive controller might fit your needs. Cheaper and a bit bigger in volume.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

liveforphysics
30 December 2013, 1352
Size8 gen4 is a workhorse.

The Size10 also is available with a liquid cooled sink IIRC. It seems like your tugboat application is unlikely to have strict size/weight limits on controller packaging.

http://www.sevcon.com/media/2463/Gen4%20Size%2010%20Aug%202013%20web.pdf

Athlon
30 December 2013, 1443
Size8 gen4 is a workhorse.
The Size10 also is available with a liquid cooled sink IIRC. It seems like your tugboat application is unlikely to have strict size/weight limits on controller packaging.


My biggest problem with Sevcon is the lack of support , up to today the Size8 stil running good but i'm not sure they are well tuned for the motor and after all we probably need more power than the Size8 can cope with.

Size10 have the same continous amp of Size8 , just use higher voltage , but on the boat we want to stay on lower voltages , below 500 volts.

So i'm looking for something with a little more power than Size8 in the 450-500V and a much better support.

Athlon
21 February 2014, 1709
here some pictures of the setup , I'm still open to controller suggestion as the Size 8 even with a 390V DC bus is unable to get above 70Kw , it just start oscillating and after a few second open with DSP error.
My opinion is that the motor tuning is not optimal but Sevcon is asking for the tuning more money than buying a new set of controllers :(
on the other hand staying below 50kw is ok even as continous rating (1hour)

As power source I have a 377V 200Ah (102s1p) Lipo battery plus a 150Kw diesel generator, my DC can go up to 423V but with the Sevcon i'm limited to 400.

In the pictures the gray motor is actually composed of 2 motor , each motor is driven by one Gen8 so the total output of one gray "motor" is 140kw peak.

The tug boat will have 2 gray "twin" motor and 2 controller box ( a total of 4 Gen8) but right now the system is getting short on power as each motor it just give out 70kw for a total boat power of 280kw , my target is to hit somewhere above 360kw

The bench is an old but very good Brown Boweri bench good up to 12000 rpm and 600Hp

Do you think the Wavesculptor can improve the system ?

thanks

Athlon
21 February 2014, 1711
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Nuts & Volts
21 February 2014, 1740
Unless your motor has a high power factor I dont think you'll get much motor than 80kW or so. Or if you can keep pack voltage at 423Vdc without sag than you may get more power. The controller tuned pretty easily to the controller. It all just depends on the power factor of the motor and how much pack voltage sags. Otherwise the Tritium will spit out the power it says it will

Athlon
21 February 2014, 1847
Right now the sag between no load and full (70kw) load is less than 5 volts (400v on stand by , 395 with one Gen8 at full power; with four inverter running I'm expecting 20v sag but I can crank up the no load voltage to 423 )

motor CosFi is 0,83

I need a short burst of power for about 60-120 seconds but right now the controller fail with DSP (Digital Signal processor) error after just 20-25 seconds at full power , the motor is not even getting warm , Gen8 temperature raise with a rate of about 0,6 per second at full load

Athlon
21 February 2014, 1900
the best I got out of a motor today was 73Kw @3000 rpm but the feeling was horrible , a lot of power oscillation (the power was bouncing back and forth from 70 to 74 kw )
with a lot of humming and pulsating pitch noise , when I trottle back to 60kw everithing is smooth , it sound like the Gen8 is unable to control the motor above a certain power.

The motor is rated 45kw @ 50hz S1 duty and it weight 80kg ( 160kg the twin assembly) , I have the feeling that the system is not at the limit but I cannot find why :(

Nuts & Volts
21 February 2014, 1927
What's the pole count of your motor? I assume they are probably 4 or 8 pole motors which means the Tritium can spin them up to 15000RPM or 7500RPM without issue. When we go above 500Hz commutation frequency or into full current field weakening is the only place we had issues with the Tritium.

With 400Vdc supply at 300Arms with 90% eff system and .83 phase...and using this pdf (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDgQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rinehartmotion.com%2Ffiles%2F Download%2FPMxxx%2520Datasheet%252001052012.pdf&ei=EgoIU_MfxNDIAbaCgPAB&usg=AFQjCNHHS43P-DD7DiTrajm4f7SKfzB0pA&sig2=BAFOTdQCt2OnxKSfus6ROQ) you should get you 110kW output from a Tritium at full blast.

So based on that I would go with them. They have great support and have always answered questions we have asked. They even overnighted a few parts to use when we needed them. Super easy to setup with the driver controls unit and resolver boards.

Athlon
22 February 2014, 0622
motor are 4 poles , the iron lamination thikness is 0,5mm so is good only for frequency of about 100-120hz not more. Triangle connected .

I don't think they can reach 90% efficiency are just plain industrial motor (but I know that crane version of same motor can cope with a lot of overload easily )

Athlon
03 March 2014, 1249
How is the support from builder?



well ,up to now don't look so good , I sent one week ago an e-mail asking for a quote for 2 inverters to replace 2 Sevcon and up to now still not having any answer :(


I hope they are just busy and this is not the average response time

Nuts & Volts
03 March 2014, 1458
well ,up to now don't look so good , I sent one week ago an e-mail asking for a quote for 2 inverters to replace 2 Sevcon and up to now still not having any answer :(


I hope they are just busy and this is not the average response time

Yes they can be slow to answer emails, but they have always gotta back to me at some point and provide an answer to my questions. Just follow up with them and they should get back to you. Especially for a sale.

Athlon
10 March 2014, 1032
Still no answer :(

right now I rave the motor open so it can be easy to add a thermal sensor right for the Wavesculptor , but I need a feedback asap because for the end of the week I need to close the motors again and resume the testing

Can you confirm the e-mail address is the one in the contact page? http://tritium.com.au/contact/

Nuts & Volts
10 March 2014, 1158
Still no answer :(

right now I rave the motor open so it can be easy to add a thermal sensor right for the Wavesculptor , but I need a feedback asap because for the end of the week I need to close the motors again and resume the testing

Can you confirm the e-mail address is the one in the contact page? http://tritium.com.au/contact/

Send me an email at kginaven@gmail.com and I forward you my contact there.

Athlon
10 March 2014, 1217
Send me an email at kginaven@gmail.com and I forward you my contact there.

ok sent , thanks for the help !!

jonescg
10 March 2014, 1738
The guys at Tritium might be focussing heavily on their Vefill DC fast chargers. That said it's a shame they haven't got back to you sooner.

weber
26 March 2014, 0051
Hi Athlon. Is this of any interest. I note that it has auto-tune. But it achieves it's higher power by higher voltage rather than higher current.
http://forums.aeva.asn.au/forums/for-sale-the-beast-220-kva-vfd-3000_topic4090.html