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milton
09 April 2017, 0841
I Just finished wiring the motor controller Curtis 1238 with my AC-23 motor and batteries. The batteries are currently at 3.8v each building up at 92.4v and 120ah.

The Controller status LED is blinking slow yellow and the programmer diagnostics shows all OK but the motor does not spin when the throttle is twisted. I can feel the motor shaft gets stiff when controller is fired up. Otherwise the shaft is free moving so the Motor is definitely getting power.

My throttle is a Domino electric throttle with 5 wires, i connected 3 to the controller and left the remaining 2 hanging. I even tried with a three wire 0-5ohm potentiometer but motor is still not spinning.

Any thoughts / Ideas / suggestions would be really helpful.

Hugues
09 April 2017, 1140
Hi,

First thing, be sure your wheel is off the ground, or better, your motor is not connected yet to your wheel. I just wanted to be sure, i guess you already know this. WHen you play with the controller parameters, anything can happen, the motor can start to spin full speed, it happened to me.

Now, i can think of a few things that could explain your problem:

- Have you (or your vendor) ran the motor characterisation procedure ? since i understand this is a new motor and controller ?
- I think you have the Curtis software, you can read the throttle value that the controller is seeing in the parameters section, should go up when you twist the throttle.
- check that your throttle parameters are set properly, meaning the "0" level and some others
- Throttle type is also an important parameter to check, could explain your problem
- there is a parameter to swap encoder phases, could create this kind of problem,

there are a few more, but let's get started with these..

milton
09 April 2017, 1634
Hi,

First thing, be sure your wheel is off the ground, or better, your motor is not connected yet to your wheel. I just wanted to be sure, i guess you already know this. WHen you play with the controller parameters, anything can happen, the motor can start to spin full speed, it happened to me.

Now, i can think of a few things that could explain your problem:

- Have you (or your vendor) ran the motor characterisation procedure ? since i understand this is a new motor and controller ?
- I think you have the Curtis software, you can read the throttle value that the controller is seeing in the parameters section, should go up when you twist the throttle.
- check that your throttle parameters are set properly, meaning the "0" level and some others
- Throttle type is also an important parameter to check, could explain your problem
- there is a parameter to swap encoder phases, could create this kind of problem,

there are a few more, but let's get started with these..

Huges,

Motor is not connected to the wheel so no worries on that end.

- Have you (or your vendor) ran the motor characterisation procedure ? since i understand this is a new motor and controller ?
(Milton) I dont know about the vendor, but I have not run any motor characterization procedure. Yes this is a new motor and controller. How do i run the characterisation procedure?

- I think you have the Curtis software, you can read the throttle value that the controller is seeing in the parameters section, should go up when you twist the throttle.
(Milton) Yes, i have the handheld programmer 1313. I'll check if I can find the throttle value parameter

- check that your throttle parameters are set properly, meaning the "0" level and some others
(Milton) Will check and confirm

- Throttle type is also an important parameter to check, could explain your problem
(Milton) Throttle type is set to 3, since its a 3 wire potentiometer

- there is a parameter to swap encoder phases, could create this kind of problem,
(Milton) Will check and confirm as well

-Update: Looks like my programmer is user level so i dont see all the settings. Is there a firmware i can flash to update it to 4401 or 4431.. anyone?

Hugues
10 April 2017, 0415
Hi,

Motor characterization procedure is attached, not very difficult but not straightforward either if it's your first time. You should ask the vendor of the controller and motor (if you purchased at the same place) if they have done it.

I never worked with the hand held programmer, only Curtis software with USB dongle.

7337

frodus
10 April 2017, 1332
HPEVS does that before they ship out, as far as I've ever known. They're matched and tuned.

milton
10 April 2017, 1635
I received an email from evwest (the vendor) that i have to connect pin 22 (yellow wire for fwd) to 12v wire on pin 25 and pin 9 to a charger interlock. I dont have a charger connected yet, so i left the pin 9 not connected. I connected pin 22 but still no motor spin.

Hugues
11 April 2017, 0357
I received an email from evwest (the vendor) that i have to connect pin 22 (yellow wire for fwd) to 12v wire on pin 25 and pin 9 to a charger interlock. I dont have a charger connected yet, so i left the pin 9 not connected. I connected pin 22 but still no motor spin.

Yes, forward pin as to be connected. But you should have received all these instructions, didn't you ?

You can find them in the Support section here:
http://www.hpevs.com/

There is also a schematic for connections

frodus
11 April 2017, 0739
Milton,
What wiring diagram are you using?

milton
11 April 2017, 1207
Milton,
What wiring diagram are you using?

Finally got the Motor to spin. Seems like i did not connect the interlock wire to 12v. I tried connecting but the controller gave fault code 28. Tried it again today and it worked.. Motor has a spin.

I'l post some build pictures in some time.

frodus
11 April 2017, 1402
Those controllers are particular about the order in which you turn on and off certain inputs, for safety reasons.

From what I recall, Interlock should be completely closed before turning on KSI. If interlock opens, you must cycle KSI.

Glad you got it working.

milton
11 April 2017, 1414
Those controllers are particular about the order in which you turn on and off certain inputs, for safety reasons.

From what I recall, Interlock should be completely closed before turning on KSI. If interlock opens, you must cycle KSI.

Glad you got it working.

Thans Frodos and Huges. I was worried the motor might be a bust as it was on the motorcycle when i welded few tacks

Pictures attached. Still have a long way to go to get it road worthy. Pulley ratio is 5:1. If the motor gets too hot on drive then i can swap out the drive pulley for a 28 teeth brining the ratio down to 6.5:1

Now i need to figure out the BMS connections. Thats something i am a little scared off as it can mess with the batteries



73417342734373447345

I'll also make a video on the connections for people like me who are new to all these electronics and post it on youtube.

podolefsky
11 April 2017, 1529
Code 28 is motor temp hot cutback. That sounds more like a bad connection to the temp sensor.

Glad you got it working. Yes, you either need interlock connected to controller 12V or set it to type 2 (interlock turns on with KSI). Make sure it's controller 12V (pin 25) and not your system 12V (they need to be isolated).

You can turn interlock and KSI on/off in any sequence.

There's a setting called high pedal disable (HPD) that checks throttle <25% before interlock is enabled, or it throws code 47 and cuts power. It might be enabled for golf car programming, but I'm pretty sure it's turned off for their standard auto/motorcycle program. Either way, if throttle is 0 when you turn on it won't fault.

podolefsky
11 April 2017, 1530
By the way, bike is looking awesome!

Hugues
12 April 2017, 0520
Pretty cool build !
we have pretty much the same gear,
can't you reach a ratio of 7:1 with this rear sprocket ? i have 7.04 with 176 tooth on wheel and 25 on motor

watch out when you connect your BMS, you can also damage the electronic of the BMS if you invert your wires. First you need to connect all your wires to your battery, then you check manually with a voltmeter that you got them in the right order on the BMS connector, then you can plugin the connector in the BMS. They also sell a tool to check this, but it can be done manually.

Nando
14 April 2017, 1812
Milton, that is a very impressive build. Looks like you built the frame and the front suspension, wow. Building the whole bike from scratch, hope it goes smooth.

Ken Will
15 April 2017, 0524
I like it!
It reminds me a little of Graucho's bike.
7346

Stevo
15 April 2017, 1013
Cool. What color ya gonna paint it? Mural?

milton
16 April 2017, 2026
By the way, bike is looking awesome!

Thanks podolefsky

milton
16 April 2017, 2028
Pretty cool build !
we have pretty much the same gear,
can't you reach a ratio of 7:1 with this rear sprocket ? i have 7.04 with 176 tooth on wheel and 25 on motor

watch out when you connect your BMS, you can also damage the electronic of the BMS if you invert your wires. First you need to connect all your wires to your battery, then you check manually with a voltmeter that you got them in the right order on the BMS connector, then you can plugin the connector in the BMS. They also sell a tool to check this, but it can be done manually.

I am keeping that ratio as an option. My pulley is from Gates and they have quite some options for drive side pulley. If needed I can replace the drive side with a smaller one.

milton
16 April 2017, 2031
Milton, that is a very impressive build. Looks like you built the frame and the front suspension, wow. Building the whole bike from scratch, hope it goes smooth.

Yes Nando. I built every thing from scratch including the front suspension and rear swing arm. Also trying to figure out the design for the handle bar since the entire bike is curve, would concentrate on some big bends rather then small bends.

Right now there is one hurdle. The rear pulley is a tad wobbly. One of the bolt hole is not centered. Will have to figure out a way to do that.

milton
16 April 2017, 2032
I like it!
It reminds me a little of Graucho's bike.
7346

Thanks ken.

milton
16 April 2017, 2034
Cool. What color ya gonna paint it? Mural?

Thinking of either keeping it bare metal finish it a bit and just clear coat it or go with matte black and bronze. But there is a long time to for that...

Hugues
16 April 2017, 2142
I am keeping that ratio as an option. My pulley is from Gates and they have quite some options for drive side pulley. If needed I can replace the drive side with a smaller one.

You'll probably need to ventilate your motor very well. I'm running 7.04:1 and I had to do the following:
- add 12v radial blower to force air into the openings on the shaft side to ventilate rotor
- add 12v fan underneath the motor to ventilate stator
- remove the bell shape cover to help the mechanical fan to suck air out of rotor

The controller also sits on heatsink which are ventilated by two 12v blowers which exhaust is blowing on top of motor.

Which belt have you used ? The Gates Carbon GT ? It has blue teeth, that's the only one which can handle this power in that width and pitch 8 (I presume).

milton
25 May 2017, 0624
You'll probably need to ventilate your motor very well. I'm running 7.04:1 and I had to do the following:
- add 12v radial blower to force air into the openings on the shaft side to ventilate rotor
- add 12v fan underneath the motor to ventilate stator
- remove the bell shape cover to help the mechanical fan to suck air out of rotor

The controller also sits on heatsink which are ventilated by two 12v blowers which exhaust is blowing on top of motor.

Which belt have you used ? The Gates Carbon GT ? It has blue teeth, that's the only one which can handle this power in that width and pitch 8 (I presume).

Yes i got the Gates Carbon GT 1400mm length 8mm pitch. Here is the latest picture with the battries fit in. I have the batteries mounted but dont have a picture of that yet.

Still working on the ventilation aspect for the motor and Controller. Will probably have liquid cool for controller since its sitting on a chill plate. I was thinking of a heat sink as well but will decide on that after a trial run.

The motor's bell shape is outside the bike frame. so it should be good out there.. It might help adding a blower on the shaft side.

73597360

milton
20 July 2017, 0621
has any one used the Domino or Magura throttle? I wanted to know the wiring with Curtis 1238. I wired it up yesterday,
- white throttle wire to pot low on curtis controller (Purple and white wire)
- Black throttle wire to pot wiper on curtis controller (Yellow and white wire)
- Light blue throttle wire to pot high on curtis controller (Black and white wire)

When i turned on the switch the motor just went high, even when i twisted the throttle the motor did not slow down. I tried reversing the pot high and pot low wires but still the same.

frodus
20 July 2017, 0901
Did you program the controller for the correct throttle type? Normally they're set for 2-wire by default. You're using 3-wire.


What pins are you wiring the throttle to on the sealed connector on the Curtis?

milton
20 July 2017, 0922
Did you program the controller for the correct throttle type? Normally they're set for 2-wire by default. You're using 3-wire.


What pins are you wiring the throttle to on the sealed connector on the Curtis?

Pin 15, 16 and 18

If I want to do a 2 wire throttle what pin should i use? Domino has a two wire configuration also. They also have two wire for microswitch. I dont know what that is for though.

frodus
20 July 2017, 0930
How is your curtis configured? Do you have a programmer?

milton
20 July 2017, 1357
How is your curtis configured? Do you have a programmer?

I do not have a programmer handy but it did work with a another potentiometer with a three wire with a high, middle and low connection. I did not try with the domino throttle earlier

frodus
20 July 2017, 1411
Can you point me to your documentation for the Domino? And what documentation you're using for wiring the Curtis?

See this:
http://curtisinstruments.com/Uploads/DataSheets/50265_123638E_RevC3.pdf

page 6.

Throttle HIGH is pin 15
Throttle WIPER is pin 16
Throttle LOW is pin 18

According to this:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5252.0

you have White is Throttle low, Black is throttle wiper, and Blue is throttle high.

Have you tested the throttle with a multimeter?


Are you sure you have the motor phases in the right direction? If they're backwards, it won't align with the encoder, and could spin out of control.

milton
22 July 2017, 1517
The throttle is working fine now. There are two green wires for micro-switch that needs to be connected together for the throttle to send proper signal. Else it sends hight throttle signal

milton
22 July 2017, 1946
How is your curtis configured? Do you have a programmer?

I had a user programmer and configured it to use a three wire pot, I had bought a 3 wire potentiometer from amazon and used that to test run the motor few months ago before reselling the programmer. So yes it is configured for a three wire pot. Wondering how to use the microswitch though. Worries if the microswitch goes bad, the motor will just spin out of control specially while i am riding it!! Wondering if the microswitch gets connected to the controller somewhere. Couldnt find any wiring schematic of curtis 1238 with the microswitch or the Domino throttle wired to Curtis Controller. Zero use to use Domino throttle for their bikes.

Potentiometer:
https://www.amazon.com/a15082600ux0077-Variable-Potentiometer-Diameter-WTH118-2W/dp/B017LB2YCM/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1500777249&sr=8-4&keywords=potentiometer

throttle wiring:

http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp74/rayivers/Throttle%20Replacement%20Schematic%202%20Domino%20-%20Magura.jpg

frodus
24 July 2017, 1201
That doesn't make sense. That microswitch shouldn't do anything to the throttle signal.

Where did you buy the domino throttle?

milton
25 July 2017, 1800
That doesn't make sense. That microswitch shouldn't do anything to the throttle signal.

Where did you buy the domino throttle?

bought it at electricmotortsport

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/domino-twist-grip-throttle-with-microswitch.html

frodus
26 July 2017, 0732
It sounds like the wiring is all fudged up inside. Can you take it apart and see what wires are connected to the Pot and what wires are connected to the microswitch?

milton
26 July 2017, 2002
It sounds like the wiring is all fudged up inside. Can you take it apart and see what wires are connected to the Pot and what wires are connected to the microswitch?


Alright. Ill do that and get back

Electro Flyers
27 July 2017, 0758
7359[/ATTACH]7360

With the axis of your motor shaft forward of the swing arm pivot, the belt may go through being too tight to too loose as the rear suspension moves through its travel. Belts are less tolerant of this than roller chains. Zero bikes and I think Hugues' have the the motor shaft axis concentric with the swing arm pivot, eliminating this problem. In your case, you may need something like a Buell/Harley type belt tensioner to keep the belt from slipping teeth or being too tight.

Stevo
27 July 2017, 0933
You may have to fabricate one yourself... ATK used to make a chain torque eliminator:7394
Grainger sells several self adjusting tensioners. You probably will need to adapt one on top and on bottom of swingarm:
7395

milton
14 August 2017, 0939
I figured out the Domino throttle wiring. The wiring should be as attached. Now trying to workout the clutch. I took a short ride on the bike and it runs nice and smooth
7404


https://youtu.be/QfcSciaQisA

milton
23 August 2017, 0730
Anybody have any idea if the clutch works in 1238 controller? I have wired the clutch and checked the 12v supply. When i press the clutch the 12v is activated, but the motor does not stall.