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Thread: Nutshock V2.0 - Electric R6 Build

              
   
   
  1. #11
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    I haven't gotten to much wiring diagram, but I think I have figured out my start up sequence. I didn't want to add any new switches to the bike as I get lazy about installing them and just end up taping the switch to the handlebars

    So I will have the key switch turn on and off my vicor DC/DC through its enable pin. My contactor will be controlled with the Kill switch which will interrupt the 12V+ to the contactor economizer. Then I want to use the start (push button) button to turn my alltrax on (needs B+. I was think I would need to use a self-latching 12V relay like Noah does. Is it possible to find a self latching relay with a 12V control and 100V switched side? Or will I need a LV self-latching plus a HV regular relay?

    I could also just have the alltrax turn on when the contactor is switched, but I want to be able to program and talk to the alltrax without contactors being closed. I will do some searching later today.
    Whats under my tank may shock you!!! R6 Build, Blog/, [/URL] OSU Current webpage

  2. #12
    Seņor Member podolefsky's Avatar
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    That sounds like a good set up. The Vicor is on when gate-in is floating, so you'll need to wire it to the key switch so that gate-in goes to ground with switch "off", and floats with switch "on". You probably already know that, just pointing it out since you might have to mod your key switch to get it to work.

    I used a 12V automotive LV relay for the latch, and a separate SSR to control HV to the controller. The latch is in the circuit, not in the relay itself.

    If you can find a DPST or DPDT relay with a 12V coil, you can make it self latching and HV. Just use one of the outputs for the 12V latch, and the other for controller HV. I didn't do that because I already had the other relays, and I couldn't find a DPST SSR with the right spec.
    - Noah Podolefsky -
    The GSX-E

  3. #13
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by podolefsky View Post
    That sounds like a good set up. The Vicor is on when gate-in is floating, so you'll need to wire it to the key switch so that gate-in goes to ground with switch "off", and floats with switch "on". You probably already know that, just pointing it out since you might have to mod your key switch to get it to work.

    I used a 12V automotive LV relay for the latch, and a separate SSR to control HV to the controller. The latch is in the circuit, not in the relay itself.

    If you can find a DPST or DPDT relay with a 12V coil, you can make it self latching and HV. Just use one of the outputs for the 12V latch, and the other for controller HV. I didn't do that because I already had the other relays, and I couldn't find a DPST SSR with the right spec.
    Ok cool, so I'm on the right path. I need to find some dedicated time to soak this all in and to draw this all out.
    Whats under my tank may shock you!!! R6 Build, Blog/, [/URL] OSU Current webpage

  4. #14
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    It's been way to long. School is a horrible monster, especially during winter quarter. One more exam Thursday and I will have a solid 10 days for my El Moto. So be on guard because I should have some updates for ya soon.

    Things I have done in the last few weeks. Tested all of the new EIG cells. Got between 18.1 and 19Ah out of them. All but 2-3 are in good shape and I will try to purchase more, but seller doesnt want to ship any more with USPS. So if anyone in the Oakland area would like to pick them up for me and ship them, let me know. I can compensate, PM me.

    Other EIG cells are wired up for 21s and ready to install. Started wiring up some relays, soldered my Vicor up, and purchased some other LV things. Motor mount just needs two more holes in it for where it bolts into the battery boxes. Battery mounts are cut. They need sized and welded. I have re-soldered my 48V server supplies to be more robust and flexible. I am modding the internal trimmer pots in them in order to set the voltage lower for charging, parts are in the mail. Modded the Magura throttle in order to get it to slid further up the handlebar. Sorry no pictures yet.

    Big steps next week
    -weld battery boxes
    -mount controller
    -LV wiring
    -first ride

    Back to Studying (aka watching basketball with a textbook open haha)
    Last edited by Nuts & Volts; 14 March 2012 at 0957.
    Whats under my tank may shock you!!! R6 Build, Blog/, [/URL] OSU Current webpage

  5. #15
    EVangelist electriKAT's Avatar
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    Congratulations. I can't wait to see some video.

    Suggestion: if you're not actually studying, why not work on the elmoto with a text book open?

  6. #16
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by electriKAT View Post
    Congratulations. I can't wait to see some video.

    Suggestion: if you're not actually studying, why not work on the elmoto with a text book open?
    Bikes and tools are about 20min from school It's tough to work on things when parts/tools are in two different places. That's what has kept me from taking study breaks to work on it.

    On the other hand, have been doing some other battery design while I have been studying. Hopefully in a few months I can share the other El Moto I have been working on
    Whats under my tank may shock you!!! R6 Build, Blog/, [/URL] OSU Current webpage

  7. #17
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    About time for an update. Been busy all summer and lucky El Motos have been a big part of it.

    First major bit of news is that I made it to the Vetter Challenge at Mid-Ohio a few weeks again. Had the pleasure of meeting both Noah and Mark at the event, great buys and great builders. The tough news is that I ended up crashing during the ride. Overreacted after taking my eye of the road and grabbed all of the front brakes (which are very strong on an R6). This slowed me down some, but the tire lost traction and I could maintain balance. I bailed off and almost managed to stand up, but had too much momentuum and went into a single roll. The bike is scratched up now and a battery was very close to being damaged, but it is holding up just fine now. I was going about 45mph according to the GPS. The main reason for the crash is that I was unfamiliar with riding, my bike, and group riding since I had only gotten the bike running the day before. Lesson learned I suppose.



    Anyways this convinced me to take some more time and upgrade the battery box. I took some inspiration from Adam's (RemoteContact) Ninja Battery box and a bit of my first CAD models. 3/8" plate on each side that is threaded for M10x1.5 bolts. 1/4" cross members with #10-24 bolts threaded into the 3/8" plate. I will be adding a lower section that can handle 1/3 more battery. That section will be getting welded up in a shop this fall hopefully. All 6061-T651 Aluminum. Over the winter I will probably lighten the side plates with a cool pattern.




    Rest of this summer I will be upgrading some charging options and hopefully getting started on bodywork for it. And of course get some riding in. Things are starting to look good for this machine.

    As it sits (plus tank and seat) it weighs about 340-350lbs with 77V and 6.1kWh and can go about 60-70 miles easily. It is geared for 90mph right now and I'll see if it can hit that sometime. I have about 40HP peak, but never really use more than 30HP peak while riding. I'll get some performance numbers next week hopefully.
    Last edited by Nuts & Volts; 10 August 2012 at 0913.
    Whats under my tank may shock you!!! R6 Build, Blog/, [/URL] OSU Current webpage

  8. #18
    Senior Member picaroon's Avatar
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    I like updates with lots of photo's

    I'd almost forgotten you were using an agni, as I am too so I will be really interested in your performance numbers. My lambretta when finished is very different to your R6 but it will have a similar weight and voltage and will be running with an agni too.

    Hope you dont mind me asking you a couple of questions. What rpm will your motor be running at to get 90mph? And at that gear ratio what sort of amps does the motor need to keep up with the traffic going from 0-30mph?

    Your new battery box looks good. I can't really tell in the photos but are the bottom cross members taking all the weight of your cells? I only mention it because its quite difficult to predict thread stripping strength especially if it has been hand drilled and tapped. I know some aluminium can be a PITA to drill and tap, it can tear and rip rather than cut clean. If the bolts go in from the sides and your thread is counter bored then its all down to the shear strength of the bolt shaft which is more predictable.

    It is geared for 90mph right now and I'll see if it can hit that sometime
    I'm glad you haven't lost any confidence

  9. #19
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by picaroon View Post
    I like updates with lots of photo's

    I'd almost forgotten you were using an agni, as I am too so I will be really interested in your performance numbers. My lambretta when finished is very different to your R6 but it will have a similar weight and voltage and will be running with an agni too.

    Hope you dont mind me asking you a couple of questions. What rpm will your motor be running at to get 90mph? And at that gear ratio what sort of amps does the motor need to keep up with the traffic going from 0-30mph?

    Your new battery box looks good. I can't really tell in the photos but are the bottom cross members taking all the weight of your cells? I only mention it because its quite difficult to predict thread stripping strength especially if it has been hand drilled and tapped. I know some aluminium can be a PITA to drill and tap, it can tear and rip rather than cut clean. If the bolts go in from the sides and your thread is counter bored then its all down to the shear strength of the bolt shaft which is more predictable.



    I'm glad you haven't lost any confidence
    I'll speak on the battery box first. Yes the battery weight (100lbs) is being supported by the 3 cross members on the bottom. Each have four 10-24in (12 total) that were hand drilled and tapped. 6061 Aluminum is quite strong (good tensile strength, which is important when looking at thread slipping) and very machinable. So threading it works pretty well. If something goes wrong there should still be two cross members there to make it home. I will check to see if any threads strip after all my rides.

    Bolts are much stronger in tension and that is why I choose to load them that way. I also plan to have the box welded in the future so having it bolted together will make it easier to send to someone to weld up. That will be much stronger. Thanks for the word of concern thou, I did think about it a bit before going for it.

    As for the gearing I am at 4.16 (50/12) right now, but have a 68 tooth sprocket to install So I am geared for 97mph at 5467RPM (77V*71RPM/V). I want to gear it for more like 77mph @5.23 (68/13), but need to see how efficient I am at highway speeds.

    For the 18 miles I did ride it, I actually had nice acceleration (@385A Alltrax motor limit). I can't speak to how much motor current I actually use, but I can do some calculations to figure it out once I get data. But with 14% more current and 24% higher gearing should have so real nice acceleration on such a light machine. I will try to get some good data next week, my CA at 5Hz should give velocity and time info so I can calculate reliable acceleration.

    Oh my 100V DC/DC doesn't seem to want to work at 87V so I am trying to find a permanent 12V battery. Looking for 4 A123 20Ah cells and a 4s charge for them at the moment. I will also test the 100V Vicor off the bike to see whats going on.
    Last edited by Nuts & Volts; 10 August 2012 at 1813.
    Whats under my tank may shock you!!! R6 Build, Blog/, [/URL] OSU Current webpage

  10. #20
    Seņor Member podolefsky's Avatar
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    That's looking really good. Should be a lot more solid, and those frame sliders should help too.

    I can't say it enough times - really glad you're OK (and the bike).
    - Noah Podolefsky -
    The GSX-E

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