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Thread: Pre-build thread - Stingray frame

              
   
   
  1. #1
    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Pre-build thread - Stingray frame

    I'm starting a new thread for my project because things are changing direction.

    My local bike shop has in stock a rolling chassis from a nice HPU frame (German makers), they call it the Stingray. I went to measure it today, i modeled it in 3D using Google Sketchup (3D animation below), looks like i can fit nicely 8 packs of Elite GBS 60 Ah so that i can reach 96V.

    I'm planning to use the dual hub motor from Enertrac, would fit nicely in the 11" wheel, and a Kelly controller.

    I'm showing below the video of the frame to get a better idea than a flat picture. And a picture of a finished bike i saw on internet, using the same frame. For the moment that's more or less the style of the finished bike i'd like to build, more black probably, black wheels, no chrome.

    next step is to get ready with the certification file for the DOT, frame is all ok, Kelly controllers have EU certification. If anyone in Europe has certified the Elite GBS batteries in a motorbike, i would like to know what kind of certificate you had to show to your local DOT.

    So i'll post more info later.





    Stingray.jpg

    one.jpg
    Last edited by Hugues; 13 February 2012 at 1317.
    Regards from Switzerland
    My 2.5 Upgrade Thread

  2. #2
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    That looks like a WAY better choice in frame geometry Huges, I think you will be able to end up with something you enjoy riding with that geometry and fork setup. I could see you loving to ride that machine, and it loving you in return.

    Here in CA USA, when I want to register a custom motorcycle, I get a "special construction" title/registration form, and they do a safety inspection on the bike to ensure it has the required brakes and lights and mirrors and tires etc. It's generally a minor hassle, but has always been do-able so far.

    Here in the states, you can't get anything registered or titled that is custom built until you've got it to the point it can pass the state-patrol safety inspection, (with the exception being if the frame you're starting from all ready had a registered VIN/title at some point in it's life.)

    I would start by talking to your local DMV about your intended project and requesting the forms in advance, some of them require you to show receipts for over 50% of the vehicles value coming from the parts of the machine that you added yourself, so it would be good to have the forms in advance to know if you need to start saving all receipts early etc.

  3. #3
    Senior Member larryrose11's Avatar
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    Hugues,
    Cool looking roller. Cant wait to see how it goes. Are you going to be doing most of the work yourself? (I didnt visit ES, so I don't know your building skills)
    ON the Enertrac motor, I know that Mark had been working on a switchable winding motor, to go from 2 to 4 turns. He calls it a e-transmission. If this option is avalable, it will make you batteries happier as they would draw 1/2 the current below 50 KPH, and then switch to the 2 turn arrangement.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by larryrose11 View Post
    Hugues,
    Cool looking roller. Cant wait to see how it goes. Are you going to be doing most of the work yourself? (I didnt visit ES, so I don't know your building skills)
    ON the Enertrac motor, I know that Mark had been working on a switchable winding motor, to go from 2 to 4 turns. He calls it a e-transmission. If this option is avalable, it will make you batteries happier as they would draw 1/2 the current below 50 KPH, and then switch to the 2 turn arrangement.
    It only makes the controller happier rather than the batteries happier. :-) Makes batteries slightly less happy, as for a given amount of phase amps, you're able to have higher phase voltage for a given speed, hence higher pack currents, lower phase currents. Remember, the controller + motor winding inductance makes a giant buck-converter.

  5. #5
    Senior Member markcycle's Avatar
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    For a fixed torque level a four turn winding will use half the battery current up to the point you reach about 70% of the voltage limit
    So to relax the peak load on the battery one has to set the phase current limit to half what you would when running in two turn mode.
    This will result in the same off the line torque numbers but half the battery current.
    This also will not impact performance at higher speeds in two tun mode as at high speed one is generally battery current limited. when at high speed if the battery current limit stresses your batteries then this technique will not help. In most cases the peak stress on the batteries happen at low speeds when one is phase current limited and in this case having a two/four turn winding helps considerably.

    If you use the four turn winding to double the torque of the motor off the line then you are not going to help lower peak demand on the batteries. It's my guess Luke was thinking hey I have twice the amp turns now I can get twice the off line torque and not thinking hey now I have twice the amp turns so I turn down my peak phase amps and make my batteries happier.

    This is all mute as the Dual motor isn't offered with a two/four turn winding.
    Last edited by markcycle; 12 February 2012 at 0910.
    Trying to Change the old school ways of doing things
    But I never Never try to break the laws of Physics
    http://www.enertrac.net
    http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=1543
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEldNmBgIF0
    http://www.evalbum.com/2568

  6. #6
    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveforphysics View Post
    ....
    Here in the states, you can't get anything registered or titled that is custom built until you've got it to the point it can pass the state-patrol safety inspection, (with the exception being if the frame you're starting from all ready had a registered VIN/title at some point in it's life.)
    This frame has a VIN and the related paper, so i'm not too worried about that part.

    Quote Originally Posted by liveforphysics View Post
    I would start by talking to your local DMV about your intended project and requesting the forms in advance, some of them require you to show receipts for over 50% of the vehicles value coming from the parts of the machine that you added yourself, so it would be good to have the forms in advance to know if you need to start saving all receipts early etc.
    Definitely a good advice. I called them some weeks ago and they did not mention any specific form, but I'm sure they have one. They told me to read two federal laws about vehicle safety and low voltage regulations. I'm not worried about the first one because the guy who is gonna build my bike has built and registered many custom bikes before. About the one on low voltage, it mainly refers to EU regulations, so if i get the CE stamp and certificate, for example on the controller, that makes things much simpler. But i found two little "cracks" maybe in that regulation. The first one says it does not apply if you are using the equipment for private usage. But i cannot imagine there are no regulations at all in that case ?! The second one says the regulation does not apply if the nominal voltage is below 75 V DC, which is technically feasible, at least for my first build. If there is anyone from UK or Germany on this forum, i would be grateful if you share your experience with registering a bike in EU, as we have similar laws here in Switzerland.

    thanks all
    Regards from Switzerland
    My 2.5 Upgrade Thread

  7. #7
    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larryrose11 View Post
    .... Are you going to be doing most of the work yourself? (I didnt visit ES, so I don't know your building skills)...
    My local bike shop will do most of the building, aside the electrical system. He's done many custom bikes before, they do all the metal work themselves and outsource paint job.

    So i'll be handling the electrical part and the fine tuning on the rest. I have a mechanical engineering background and good basics in electronic and electricity. I've got into e-bikes last summer and did learn a lot through the ES forum and my countless repairs and mods, there is not a single component i haven't broken and repaired, and multiple times. LOL. Although i must say my e-bike is much more reliable now. So i think i'm ready to upgrade to higher amps and volts and with the help of the guys here on elmoto I'm confident it's gonna be feasible. Get ready for a truck load of questions though ! LOL. And i've read Ted's book too. I've been reading each new post on the forum for a while now, especially about wiring diagrams and requirements in terms of fuse, contactor, DC converter and the rest.

    It's gonna be fun !

    thanks in advance for the support.
    Regards from Switzerland
    My 2.5 Upgrade Thread

  8. #8
    teddillard
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    woah. That thing is a BEAST. Can't wait!

  9. #9
    Senior Member larryrose11's Avatar
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    What are the rear suspension options on something like that? there is a big difference between a little give and a rigid mount. I realize that the wide rear rim (240 mm?) has some weight, as will the dual wheel motor.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Hugues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larryrose11 View Post
    What are the rear suspension options on something like that? there is a big difference between a little give and a rigid mount. I realize that the wide rear rim (240 mm?) has some weight, as will the dual wheel motor.
    Rim is 11", as for the suspension, i can choose. But i don't know much about this, anything to propose ? I remember he mentioned about air suspension to lower the frame to the ground, but i'm not sure i'll start with options like this.
    Regards from Switzerland
    My 2.5 Upgrade Thread

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