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Thread: 400 wh/kg is here ?

              
   
   
  1. #11
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    What about 400wH/liter? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44EaT...&feature=share

    Where does that stack up? Non toxic, and so stable all you need is a very basic BMS. The problem is, as mentioned above, the discharge rate is pretty low. Is this where super capacitors could help?

    [Edit] Sorry, try this link. http://www.eosenergystorage.com/docu...ion_1-5-12.pdf

    The other is an hour long webinar.
    Last edited by jazclrint; 27 February 2012 at 1535. Reason: additional link

  2. #12
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    The report on the local radio financial news blurb (take that for what you will) says that production of the cells should start by 2014. I assume that is if they get enough investment money to build a factory and do all of the other stuff necessary to produce, market and distribute their batteries. What worries me is that the government gave them a grant - and you know what that means.

  3. #13
    Moderator ZoomSmith's Avatar
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    if they get enough investment money
    the government gave them a grant - and you know what that means
    Oooboy. There's the kiss of death.

  4. #14
    Senior Member larryrose11's Avatar
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    Richard230, Zoomsmith,
    Not to get off topic, Grants are the kis of death? Whaaa? Explain please? The Gov gives out grants all the time for all kindsa of stuff. Education, Research, to name just 2. Hell, the DarpaNet started out as a grant.

    Back on topic:
    So, this 45 Ah cell they showed off can discharge at 45 amps (1c) Thats all? So, the best way to use somthing like this is crazy high voltages. To get 30 kW out of a pack of 2 paralell cells, thats 90A limit, what would the voltage be?
    30000W/90A=333.33 V (!!!)
    I think they need more reaction area to get the C-rate up!!

  5. #15
    Moderator ZoomSmith's Avatar
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    Larry,
    Specifically, stimulus funds to "green" ventures.
    Enerdel, is the most recent one that comes to mind.
    The term "grants" was a little broad.
    Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

  6. #16
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    Larry, that comment was meant to be a joke. It seems like every alternate energy company that has failed recently has received a "government grant" in the amount of millions of dollars.

    Moving on.....

    This story hit the business section of my newspaper today. In an article written by Dana Hull of Mercurynews.com, it is stated that “Envia (Systems) was awarded a $4 million grant from ARPA-E in December 2009 to develop advanced lithium-ion batteries for electric cars. It went on to raise $17 million in venture capital from General Motors Ventures, Bay Partners, Redpoint and Pangaea Ventures. In a separate agreement, GM secured the right to use Envia's technology for GM's future electrically driven vehicles.”

    An interesting comment in the article was provided by Mike Omososo, a senior auto analyst with LMC Automotive, who said: “It does sound very impressive, but it remains to be seen if it will work outside the lab”. “Since most EV and plug-in makers have already got battery suppliers in place, it may be a few years before we see the Envia batteries in vehicles on the road”.

    The article also mentions a statement by Envia that “When commercialized its 400 wh/kg battery, which will provide a range of 300 miles and cost about $25,000, will slash the price of electric vehicles, making them more affordable for mainstream customers”.

    The article concludes with the following statements: “While there's been talk in the industry of moving beyond lithium and using new materials, many expect lithium-ion batteries to remain dominant in the coming decades.” “The rumors of the demise of lithium-ion batteries were greatly exaggerated.” (A quote by Evia's CEO Atul Kapadia.)

    The article also mentions that there are "at least two dozen battery start-ups" in the Silicon Valley area. To me, that sounds like a risky business to be in, unless you are very well funded, have a lot of industry connections and are working on a "world beater" battery design.
    Last edited by Richard230; 28 February 2012 at 1055.

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    Quote Originally Posted by larryrose11 View Post
    Back on topic:
    So, this 45 Ah cell they showed off can discharge at 45 amps (1c) Thats all? So, the best way to use somthing like this is crazy high voltages. To get 30 kW out of a pack of 2 paralell cells, thats 90A limit, what would the voltage be?
    30000W/90A=333.33 V (!!!)
    No matter how you arrange it, you only get 1-C discharge. Makes no difference on if you go high or low voltage, only the number of cells.

    For example, if you have space/budget for 100 cells, you can arrange it 10s10p and have a ~32v pack with 450Ah that can discharge at 450amps @32v (14.4kw), or you could arrange it to be 100s1p, and it's 320v45Ah, and can discharge at 320v @45amps, which is also exactly 14.4kw.

    High or low voltage, you can never get past C-rate limitations.


    Quote Originally Posted by larryrose11 View Post
    I think they need more reaction area to get the C-rate up!!

    Whatever they did to keep the silicon anode structure from collapsing and breaking away from the current collector more thoroughly than the cycle life graph shows is going to extend beyond pumping reaction area.

  8. #18
    Senior Member larryrose11's Avatar
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    Shameless plug...

    I was cold called the other day by a Dow-Kokam, asking If I knew anyone looking for employment. So, I thought I would just throw this out.
    Anyone interested in a position as a battery engineer (Dow Kokam-Lead Systems Engineer)?
    If So, PM me your email contact, and Ill fwd you the info.
    Larry

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