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Thread: Kickstarter - Electric Motorcycle Wind Turbine Charging System

              
   
   
  1. #1
    Administrator ElMotoMike's Avatar
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    Kickstarter - Electric Motorcycle Wind Turbine Charging System

    The bike seems a bit small for what they are attempting to do, plus... am I wrong about the concept of a turbine to catch air to recharge while riding being like attaching a generator to a motor just to recharge the battery that is running the motor? The concept sounds great, but what you are trying to make is perpetual motion. By attempting to catch air you slow yourself down, putting more strain on the motor and batteries. It would be better to simply become more streamlined to increase your range. Simple physics

    Good luck to them?

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/windcycleev/electric-motorcycle-turbine-charging-system-and-ev?ref=live
    - Mike


  2. #2
    teddillard
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    Looks totally awesome to me, there, Mike! Yay! Free power! Ultracapacitors! Good job, Brandon Lape, Mount Vernon, OH, good luck!

    (****ing jackass)

    Oh awesome. There goes both my vow to break myself of the Posting Compulsively on Elmoto Habit and the Stop Being a Snarky Dink Habit both at the same time. Fine.

  3. #3
    Senior Member SplinterOz's Avatar
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    The last time I saw a crazy idea like this I think the bike was a goldwing.

    Anyway I am going to bookmark the page and hope to God there are not enough people that don't know physics and back him.
    SplinterOz
    From Australia'a Capital
    http://rgelectric.wordpress.com/

  4. Likes billmi liked this post
  5. #4
    G. B. Starkweather
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    He's got my $10

  6. Likes ElMotoMike, billmi liked this post
  7. #5
    Senior Member SplinterOz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo Toads View Post
    He's got my $10
    No he doesn't I just checked...
    SplinterOz
    From Australia'a Capital
    http://rgelectric.wordpress.com/

  8. #6
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    I swear Ive met that guy before. He's in my neck of the woods and looks real familiar.

    Doesnt really sound like he knows what he's doing...
    Whats under my tank may shock you!!! R6 Build, Blog/, [/URL] OSU Current webpage

  9. #7
    Senior Member protomech's Avatar
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    As a counterpoint, a Directly Downwind Faster Than The Wind (DDWFTTW) vehicle.

    http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/07...eyll-prove-it/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHsXcHoJu-A

    I think the basic theory is this:

    The vehicles wheels are linked to turn the prop (with a mechanical transmission, but it could be done with an electric transmission as well).

    You basically have 4 force components acting on the vehicle:

    1. Mechanical drag from the wheels linked to the prop - acts to slow down the vehicle to zero ground speed.
    2. Aerodynamic drag from the vehicle's motion relative to the wind - acts to slow the vehicle to zero air speed.
    3. Drivetrain friction - acts to slow the vehicle to zero ground speed.
    4. Prop thrust - acts to increase vehicle's speed relative to the air.

    At zero air speed, aero drag is effectively zero. If the prop thrust produces more force than the wheel mechanical and friction drag, then the vehicle will move forward relative to the wind. As the vehicle accelerates, mechanical drag increases (roughly linear to relative ground velocity), prop thrust increases (roughly linear to relative ground velocity), and aero drag increases (roughly cubic relative to air velocity). If you can get the prop thrust to be greater than the mechanical drag, then the vehicle will accelerate until it balances out with the aero drag. For the blackbird implementation, that's about 3x the speed of the wind.

    At zero ground speed, aero drag will push the vehicle forward slightly. Since prop thrust is greater than the mechanical drag, the vehicle will accelerate until it reaches and passes the aero-neutral state above.

    While the vehicle's prop is not being directly turned by the wind, the vehicle is indirectly powered by wind by exploiting the difference in the apparent aero speed and the apparent ground speed. If it is operated on the treadmill, then it could generate a small amount of power.. that would never be enough to operate the treadmill. Not perpetual motion, just clever.

    Wind Cycle is a similar system, but flipped around a bit. The wheels on the ground are (effectively) powered by the turbines.

    Roughly the same 4 components:

    1. Aerodynamic drag from the bike itself - slows bike relative to air speed.
    2. Aerodynamic drag from the turbines - slows bike relative to air speed. (assuming these are vertical omnidirectional turbines)
    3. Drivetrain friction - slows bike relative to ground speed.
    4. Torque from the motor - powers bike forward.

    In the aero-neutral case - bike moving downwind at speed with the wind - the turbines will not turn. The bike will then be slowed by drag to below the air velocity. Now there is a small wind across the turbines, which will produce some power to feed into the motor .. but the best the bike could possibly hope for is to asymptotically approach the wind speed. In the more likely case, the bike would be slowed to a couple miles per hour (but it would indeed continue to move downwind).

    In a ground-neutral case - bike at rest, wind blowing - the turbines will turn and generate power. If the bike is pointed downwind - so that the aero drag helps the bike instead of hurting it - it would slowly start to accelerate. As it accelerates, though, aero drag (pushing it forward towards the aero-neutral state) and turbine generated power will decrease.

    They could reconfigure the wind bike so that it works like the Blackbird - wheel motor as a generator, use a prop instead of a turbine generator. In this case, as long as the system efficiencies work out and the drivetrain is very low drag, the bike could probably move slightly faster than the wind.

    I think. Still somewhat fuzzy : P
    2006 Suzuki GS500, sold
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  10. #8
    G. B. Starkweather
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    a suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by SplinterOz View Post
    No he doesn't I just checked...
    it's with his motor
    Last edited by G. B. Starkweather; 06 July 2013 at 0228.

  11. #9
    Senior Member billmi's Avatar
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    That's a DR-200SE frame - not much battery room there at all. I just consulted with the guy who owns DR200SE.net to verify that.
    Sensei - Electric Ninja 250

  12. #10
    Senior Member SplinterOz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billmi View Post
    That's a DR-200SE frame - not much battery room there at all. I just consulted with the guy who owns DR200SE.net to verify that.
    Well that would fit with his plan.
    You see he wants to use Super Capacitors. Mind you from the youtube video he linked from his KickStarter page he may have to have more space for them.
    SplinterOz
    From Australia'a Capital
    http://rgelectric.wordpress.com/

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