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Thread: Optimum settings Kelly KHB 14301 with Enertrac MH602 mot + 2p48s Headway 40152s pack

              
   
   
  1. #1
    Senior Member ardhout's Avatar
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    Optimum settings Kelly KHB 14301 with Enertrac MH602 mot + 2p48s Headway 40152s pack

    Hello everybody,

    I would like to know what the optimum settings are for my Kelly controller type KHB 14301.

    Controller: 150 Amp rated current, 300 Amp peak at 144 Volt.
    Motor: Enertrac MH602 hub motor, rated power 10kW, peak power 30kW
    Batteries: 96 Headway 40152s cells of 15Ah, 2p/48s = 30Ah, 144Volt

    Reason for asking this is:
    A) Not much documentation and theories behind settings in the Kelly software is available
    B) My bike seems to take quite a lot of current and I'm worried about my batteries in the long run.

    See my building thread for general info:
    http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php...nversion/page8

    At 80km/hr: current draw is around 150Amps. (5C)
    Times 142Volts(actual voltage) = 21.3kW
    Idle voltage = 155Volt, so voltage sag is around 13V/48=0,27Volt/cell.

    Attachment 5657Attachment 5654Attachment 5655Attachment 5656

    I have made 4 screen shots of the software settings, with some questions below:
    Step 1:
    - Max. Motor Current[4]: 100% = 150Amps
    - Max. Battery Current [5]: = 50% - I don't know exactly what 50% means, till this moment I still can draw 200+ Amps from the battery when going over 90km/hr.

    Step 2:
    - Control mode = Torque: What will be better to reduce battery current at higher speed? Torque or Speed or Balanced?
    I found out that in Speed mode, at low speeds, currents can rise up till 200amps easily, acceleration is quicker, and motor noises (cogging) is more loud and 'raw' sounding then in torque mode.

    Step 3:
    - Motor top speed[1] = 70%:
    I suspect my pack voltage of 144V is the reason of the high current draw, originally my plan was to be able to run 120+km/hr with my bike, so that's why I opted for 144Volt. Decreasing to 70% did not give any result till now but maybe I still didn't run at full speed (I'm a bit afraid of the high current draw on the cells)

    Step 4:
    - Regen function in general:
    I can only regen a little bit, in the range of 10-30/40Amps, it's very fluctuating and shortly after that the controller will stop Regen. I read somewhere that the controller is monitoring max. voltage during regen (overvoltage[4] setting on screen 2??) and if it becomes too high, it will stop the regen.
    My question is: does regen work well with a Hub motor or it's the same as any other motor?

    Thanks in advance,
    Ardjan
    Last edited by ardhout; 06 April 2014 at 0618.

  2. #2
    Senior Member markcycle's Avatar
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    Something is not right
    If you were really using 21.3Kw The motor would shut down on over temp or burn out
    I'd start by calibrating the method you're using to measure current.
    Trying to Change the old school ways of doing things
    But I never Never try to break the laws of Physics
    http://www.enertrac.net
    http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=1543
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEldNmBgIF0
    http://www.evalbum.com/2568

  3. #3
    Senior Member ardhout's Avatar
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    Hello Mark,
    I'm using a cycle analyst at the moment, but will measure with a separate amp-meter this week.
    The longest test-run I did till now is 5 minutes and yes, after 5 minutes acc+dec+90km/hr, the motor already gets a bit hot, I guess around 50 degr. but I will measure that too.
    I remember from your docs that you used 106 Wh/Mi, that's 66 Wh/km, compared to my 150Wh/km, I'm still confused.

  4. #4
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    Your kelly settings are probably just fine. I think your cycle analyst shunt value is incorrect.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
    Whats under my tank may shock you!!! R6 Build, Blog/, [/URL] OSU Current webpage

  5. #5
    Senior Member ardhout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuts & Volts View Post
    I think your cycle analyst shunt value is incorrect.
    Yes I thought so too, in my diagram I wrote 0.5mOhm, CA value was set at 0.025mOhm, but what I see now is that charge current is 5A and in my CA I see 2-2.5Amp.
    Also I forgot where I bought the shunt.

    Quote Originally Posted by markcycle View Post
    I'd start by calibrating the method you're using to measure current.
    Yes, I will check how long it takes to charge the pack till full again and compare that to the Amp/hour I used.

    Anybody a good idea how to measure mOhms?

  6. #6
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    Just send a fixed current across the shunt and measure the mV drop across the shunt is my best idea. Some shunts are labeled.

    If your CA is reading charge current low then you need to decrease your mOhm setting until the current matches

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
    Whats under my tank may shock you!!! R6 Build, Blog/, [/URL] OSU Current webpage

  7. #7
    Senior Member ardhout's Avatar
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    Ok, after having done a few testdrives to and back from work, this are the average readings;
    3-4 km's are in the city, the rest is regional road, max. speed 80-90km/hr.

    - distance: 13km
    - 12 Ah / 1847 Watt-hrs
    - 139 Wh/km
    - Max. speed: 103 km/hr, AvgS: 54km/hr, Time: 14m

    I thought I could drive further but it seems that my range is limited to 30 kilometers, with a 4.5kWh battery pack a bit disappointing.

    But driving experience is good, even when riding 80km/hour, when I open the throttle, the motor really picks up well
    Last edited by ardhout; 10 April 2014 at 0944.

  8. #8
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    is your units and wheel circumference set correctly in the CA? 222 wh/mile 33mph is absurd.

    Is your motor or controller getting super hot? I'm worried that if you are actually drawing that much power that you are going to damage something.
    Whats under my tank may shock you!!! R6 Build, Blog/, [/URL] OSU Current webpage

  9. #9
    Senior Member markcycle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuts & Volts View Post
    is your units and wheel circumference set correctly in the CA? 222 wh/mile 33mph is absurd.

    Is your motor or controller getting super hot? I'm worried that if you are actually drawing that much power that you are going to damage something.
    At 222 wh/mile meltdown is in about 5 minutes maybe 7 minutes no way you did 30Km averaging that kind of power level. Where is the heat going??
    Last edited by markcycle; 10 April 2014 at 1237.
    Trying to Change the old school ways of doing things
    But I never Never try to break the laws of Physics
    http://www.enertrac.net
    http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=1543
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEldNmBgIF0
    http://www.evalbum.com/2568

  10. #10
    Senior Member ardhout's Avatar
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    Found out that the shunt is 0.5mOhm, so I set it in the CA.
    Speed is 100% correct, I checked it with a GPS.
    When I drove that distance and spend the 12Ah, it also took me almost 2 hour to charge full again with my 5Ah charger, which also seems to fit into the story.
    When I drive 33mph, the current is not high, maybe only 50Amp/7.5kW, but it increases till around 100amp/15kW at 50mph and when I drive 60mph the current will reach 150A/22kW. So it's not a straight line but seems to increase exponential.
    The motor was a bit smelly (first time use...) but not extremely hot, I could still hold my hand against it.

    Quote Originally Posted by markcycle View Post
    At 222 wh/mile meltdown is in about 5 minutes maybe 7 minutes no way you did 30Km averaging that kind of power level. Where is the heat going??
    I only drive 13km per time, and 9 km of them are with higher speed (between 50-60mph).
    Unfortunately I still can't find a good display to measure the KTY84-130 sensor inside the motor.
    Last edited by ardhout; 10 April 2014 at 1333.

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